Pagan influence in christianity

[beeveenh]

Originally Posted by Randomstudent

IMHO Christianity became sort of a power thing pretty early on. As such they needed to convert the Pagans in order to maintain the Medieval social order. Essentially everyone needed to be Christian at that time because the rulers needed to convince the serfs that they were empowered to rule by divine right. It worked something like this.

Jesus bestowed holy authority on the Pope to create kings and emperors. The kings and emperors with the blessing of the Pope, and therefore Jesus, could grant titles of noblity and with the aid of God, and a few knights, the peasants and serfs went along with their miserable existance hoping for an eternal reward.

In order for this to work however, everyone had to be Christian so they would believe Jesus was the son of God and Catholic Christian believing that St. Peter, (I think) invested the authority of the Holy Church in the Pope. That way anyone rebelling against their lord faced eternal damnation for defying not only their lord, but the king, the Pope, and God and if that did not deter them there were always the knights.

I don't see any evidence in the scripture that says that Jesus gave the Pope authority. That is a Catholic doctrine. Jesus was not political and said that his kingdom was not of this world, so his "church" being politically powerful kinda contradicts his teachings. Not everyone subscribed to the Catholic teachings back then...IMHO and scripture seems to back it up... that they have strayed from Jesus' teachings. Maybe it was the power.

[little elmer]

Originally Posted by beeveenh

I don't see any evidence in the scripture that says that Jesus gave the Pope authority. That is a Catholic doctrine. Jesus was not political and said that his kingdom was not of this world, so his "church" being politically powerful kinda contradicts his teachings. Not everyone subscribed to the Catholic teachings back then...IMHO and scripture seems to back it up... that they have strayed from Jesus' teachings. Maybe it was the power.

Repped.

It's the solid faith in Him that He builds His church upon - notice Peter's profession - "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Mat 16:16) that Jesus jumped on. (16:18)

It's interesting that only a handful of verses later, he had to rebuke Peter because man's will rose up against His will. (16:23)

[Randomstudent]

Originally Posted by beeveenh

I don't see any evidence in the scripture that says that Jesus gave the Pope authority. That is a Catholic doctrine. Jesus was not political and said that his kingdom was not of this world, so his "church" being politically powerful kinda contradicts his teachings. Not everyone subscribed to the Catholic teachings back then...IMHO and scripture seems to back it up... that they have strayed from Jesus' teachings. Maybe it was the power.

I do believe I said it was Catholic doctrine in my post. Though many early protestants also needed to be political in order to survive. Martin Luther sealed a deal with the German lords, they convert to protestantism and use his theology and as a result they could seize the wealthy monestaries and avoid paying tithes to Rome. Calvin also made a deal with wealthy merchants in the doctrine of election, claiming wealth was a sign of election and poverty a sign of damnation. This reversed the church's earlier teaching that wealth made salvation less likely and resulted in merchants becoming more respectable in society. I am not saying it is necessarily what church should be I am stating that is what the church was.

[beeveenh]

Originally Posted by Randomstudent

I do believe I said it was Catholic doctrine in my post. Though many early protestants also needed to be political in order to survive. Martin Luther sealed a deal with the German lords, they convert to protestantism and use his theology and as a result they could seize the wealthy monestaries and avoid paying tithes to Rome. Calvin also made a deal with wealthy merchants in the doctrine of election, claiming wealth was a sign of election and poverty a sign of damnation. This reversed the church's earlier teaching that wealth made salvation less likely and resulted in merchants becoming more respectable in society. I am not saying it is necessarily what church should be I am stating that is what the church was.