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Old 12-12-2008, 11:36 PM
 
37,531 posts, read 25,255,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyPoohFan317 View Post
Whether you believe Jesus died FOR our sins or BECAUSE of our sins the truth still remains, that it was OUR sins and not his that necessitated HIS death. We now live in a time where we don't have to worry about finding that perfect lamb, because our sins our covered, and that was my point, I just didn't make it very well.
You are correct . . . and you made your point very well. the ONLY difference in our views is what it means about God's motive. There was no wrath, no vengeance and no atonement to God. It was a horrible and necessary suffering (that Jesus would have preferred not be necessary . . . remember in the garden "take this cup from me"). . . but not because God required payment. It was simply the price the Messiah knew he had to pay by redeeming God's promise to send us someone to show us the way out of our ignorance and sinfulness. The end result was the same . . . but the reason for it is very different, IMO, because of our sinful natures.

It reveals the love that both God and Jesus had for humankind . . . for God to allow it and for Jesus to suffer it. If you prefer your wrathful God to my loving one . . . we simply tread different paths with different understanding. Heresy would be a rejection of Jesus and God . . . not a preference for a loving God and savior, Fundy.
Quote:
It is comforting knowing that God knows what I'm going to do. Nothing (good or bad) surprises Him. God is outside our time frame, and everything we do, with our free will will bring about His plan in the end. I find that totally comforting and amazing! He is working with all humans at once, but also with each of us personally, and helping us grow in Him- through the work of the Holy Spirit!
Exactly. God MUST work through us . . . because we have free will (which would be negated if God made us do anything or directly intervened) . . . BUT God knowing what we will choose does not negate our free will.
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Old 12-13-2008, 02:26 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,374,021 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
"

In "ANY" book. Do you mean the Word of God? Curious, what part of what Mystic said, sounded Christian to you?
As far as to what Mystic said, "sounding" Christian. Are you and I not reading the same thing? I can tell by reading and listening who is enlightened and who isn't.

I mean what I said. ANY book, and yes, this includes the bible. We are trying to understand an ancient language, by enlightened men, and put this INTO English. I have only 5 different English translations, and by reading them, it is like a massive jigsaw puzzle with one important piece missing, and the only way to understand where this piece is at, is to ask the Author. You know the piece I am talking about, don't you?
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Old 12-13-2008, 02:52 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,237,725 times
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Your knowledge, based on what? Under what authority? We do not embrace the same Holy Spirit, same way we do not embrace the same Jesus nor the same God. The Holy Spirit tells me different and since what He says to me does not contradict (2 Timothy 3:16) 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; God is not a God of confusion. How can you differentiate what is God's scripture and what is man's scripture, what authority, what you like or don't like, again it's back to you. THIS IS PRIDE

All roads do not lead to the same path, if I am wrong you are right and vice versa. Again we do not follow the same Christ. Your beliefs are alien to me and to be honest sounds nothing like Christianity except for the terminology. I believe all of scripture is from God, He says so, if it wasn't then God would not allow such blasphemy. It is the safest way to understand Him then millions of us knuckleheads claiming to get their ONLY truth from their own personal Holy Spirit. There is no order there.


Again, no scripture to back it up. You are making things up! and you are wrong because you don't understand God's nature. God always gets the glory- He uses our good and well as our bad to give Him the glory, I can explain why God allows a little girl to be raped, you can't, any answer you give is a copout not to mention contradicts scripture (Romans 8:28)
28 "And we know that ALL things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

I had no idea there were different degrees of pacifism? I thought a pacifist was opposed to violence of anykind. I guess Jesus didn't realy believe in total peace once it affected Him? "but he disrupted their evil enterprises" Their was no evil enterprise,He was mad, ticked off because they disrespected and desecrated His Father's House and He showed His wrath, His anger. Your Jesus is historically and biblically inaccurate.

Again it is about PRIDE with you. You can't and don't want to serve the right God. You want to serve the god in your own making and your own choosing.
...;-)
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Old 12-13-2008, 07:50 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,558,523 times
Reputation: 4461
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You are correct . . . and you made your point very well. the ONLY difference in our views is what it means about God's motive. There was no wrath, no vengeance and no atonement to God. It was a horrible and necessary suffering (that Jesus would have preferred not be necessary . . . remember in the garden "take this cup from me"). . . but not because God required payment. It was simply the price the Messiah knew he had to pay by redeeming God's promise to send us someone to show us the way out of our ignorance and sinfulness. The end result was the same . . . but the reason for it is very different, IMO, because of our sinful natures.

It reveals the love that both God and Jesus had for humankind . . . for God to allow it and for Jesus to suffer it. If you prefer your wrathful God to my loving one . . . we simply tread different paths with different understanding. Heresy would be a rejection of Jesus and God . . . not a preference for a loving God and savior, Fundy. Exactly. God MUST work through us . . . because we have free will (which would be negated if God made us do anything or directly intervened) . . . BUT God knowing what we will choose does not negate our free will.
I believe it showed us what is necessary for us to have life: to have our flesh crucified. Jesus implored His disciples (and us) that if anyone would follow Him, they must take up their cross. When He asked for that cup to pass, I believe it again showed us that even His flesh was bowing to the Father’s will, as we must.

We display water baptism in our churches, but few Christians take to heart that it is just a symbol of what must be carried out in the life of the child of God: the end of the old man, and the life we now live we live by the Son of God. Until we realize that the flesh never changes, we’ll continue to try to fulfill what only His life can. As He carries out this sentence of death on our nature, He replaces what we’ve lost with His nature.
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