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Old 12-18-2008, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
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"their hatred of the church and what it stands for"
So you disagree and the name calling begins, how do they hate the Church and what it stands for?
I guess you have no answer for the question I asked
"Can you explain to me why it is a mortal sin worthy of excommunication in his diocese to belong to Call To Action but nowhere else? "

 
Old 12-18-2008, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
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"As for quoting Newman (John Henry?). He is a well known dissenter "

Mr RC you do realise he was a cardinal (prince of the Church)
 
Old 12-18-2008, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
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Mr RC do you have such dislike for Newman because it has been though that he might have been Gay?
And why were all these College Catholic Centers named after him Newman Centers/Catholic Chaplaincies
 
Old 12-18-2008, 07:01 PM
 
28 posts, read 34,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
Mr RC do you have such dislike for Newman because it has been though that he might have been Gay?
And why were all these College Catholic Centers named after him Newman Centers/Catholic Chaplaincies
Wow, I guess you want to make me the new poster child for disgruntled dissenters. You have been sitting around and wondering what you can say to me for some odd reason. I will do my best to try to answer you. I realize you will not accept it but that is Ok.
Let me start with the Newman situation. No, I do not know anything about him possibly being gay. Does that matter to you somehow? My point about Newman (following your quote of him) was he was a dissenter. He dissented as an Anglican Priest and he continued until his conversion. I stated that I would not give him much credence (especially if what he said was during a dissenting period). I did not say I disliked him necessarily. There is much I do not know about him. Others reading this post can make up their own mind by going to www.pitts.emory.edu/Archives/text/mss100.html rather than listen to Ted and I disagree. I don't know why there are Newman centers everywhere. Maybe he is the patron saint of architecture . So yes, I knew he was a Cardinal but I also knew he was all over the road when it came to his beliefs. Maybe his end was all reconcilatory. It sounded like it was so I think that is wonderful. Maybe that is why he was popular because of his journey and where it led him? You seem to feel justified in some of your thinking because of some of his words. Not me. Thats all I am saying.
One thing I think is wrong is your reference to me as being a name caller. You called Bishop Bruskewitz a 'closed minded zealot'. I merely said/implied that dissenters hate the church and what it stands for. Nothing wrong or untrue with that statement. Are they not saying the creed at mass? If so, they should be members who are obedient. We are supposed to be obedient. If I am a math student and I argue every day with my teacher, organize groups and gatherings to undermine my teachers efforts, refuse to take part in the math problems of the course because I disagree with my teacher on how enjoyable they are....then...., I can hardly proclaim myself a serious math student.I believe Bishop Bruskewitz is awesome for teaching truth from the doctrines of the Church. You disagree. I agree.
You ask me why he is the lone Bishop to tell his flock to "can" Call to Action. I have never been asked by the Bishop to be his spokesman so I am not qualified to speak on his behalf. I can venture a guess however. I think he knows that Call to Action has no interest in Church Teachings but seems to be a political operative for liberal causes (many of which conflict with scripture and church teaching). So, the Bishop thinks it is a sin to belong to such a group that basically is calling the church and its beliefs (liar). If it was me, and I was a member, I would quit, renounce it, go to confession as asked, and learn more about what my church desires for me.
 
Old 12-20-2008, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
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"I merely said/implied that dissenters hate the church and what it stands for. Nothing wrong or untrue with that statement."

Your claim that "dissenters hate the Church and what it stands for" as a true fact is simply amazing.
True perhaps in your mind only.

."We are supposed to be obedient"

Most do not believe in BLIND obedience.
Faith should be intelligent and justifiable.
 
Old 12-20-2008, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
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"He dissented as an Anglican Priest and he continued until his conversion."

He also dissented after his conversion.

From your link "At the time of the Vatican Council (1869-1870), Newman, unlike his old friend Manning, was opposed to the recording of a document of papal infallibility. Though not opposed to the concept, he felt the doctrine should be given time to mature before it was codified."

Last edited by ted08721; 12-20-2008 at 09:26 AM..
 
Old 12-20-2008, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
4,368 posts, read 4,091,050 times
Reputation: 2652
"I am not qualified to speak on his behalf"

I did not ask you to, I asked why would the Church considered it a mortal sin worthy of excommunication only in one diocese in the whole country. I would think mortal sin would be the same throughout the world not only one diocese. I thought as a loyal Catholic you would be able to explain it to me. That's ok if you can't answer I realise it's not your place to reason why but as you have said "only to obey".
 
Old 12-20-2008, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 5,959,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
"I am not qualified to speak on his behalf"

I did not ask you to, I asked why would the Church considered it a mortal sin worthy of excommunication only in one diocese in the whole country. I would think mortal sin would be the same throughout the world not only one diocese. I thought as a loyal Catholic you would be able to explain it to me. That's ok if you can't answer I realise it's not your place to reason why but as you have said "only to obey".
regardless as to wether the local Bishop is "correct" or not,

they are given a great deal of autonomy.
 
Old 12-20-2008, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
4,368 posts, read 4,091,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
regardless as to wether the local Bishop is "correct" or not,

they are given a great deal of autonomy.
I would agree on day to day issues, but we are talking about MORTAL SIN and EXCOMMUNICATION that puts a person's soul at risk to suffer ETERNAL DAMNATION.
Do you see the difference?
 
Old 12-20-2008, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 5,959,041 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
I would agree on day to day issues, but we are talking about MORTAL SIN and EXCOMMUNICATION that puts a person's soul at risk to suffer ETERNAL DAMNATION.
Do you see the difference?
I do see your point.

No doubt as one travels the world, there are many inconsistencies in interpretation of dogma.


And any honest Catholic will admit, we are imperfect...

( but still working on it )
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