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Old 11-22-2008, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,479,539 times
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Inward Sabbath of the soul will cause you to delight in the outward keeping of the Sabbath! The keeping of God's laws never changes. Those who fear God will Keep/obey His Words.

The Sabbath is hard to keep because people want to do their own thing! Some use the excuse, (and there are plenty) they would'nt be able to live/provide for their families. I ask: how would you know if you will 'live' if you don't keep it? Think on this and be bless.


Your sister in Christ Jesus
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Old 11-23-2008, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Central Florida
71 posts, read 97,403 times
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It is my hope that as brothers we can understand that neither we nor the traditions of our fathers are the key to eternal life. As a growing follower of Christ my walk changes as my understanding changes. I pray that we seek this understanding by the gift of the Holy Spirit, as we read His Word. We are taught that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 NASB. Since the Word was with God in the beginning, and all things came into being thru Him.....perhaps we should pay attention to what was given us in the beginning so that we might better understand what the writers of the New Testament were trying to convey. My simple contention is that even when a truth is passed down the line by man, it changes on each reiteration. The only foundation that we have is the Word.

For so long as a believer did I concentrate on the writings of the New Testament as my foundation. Things seem to change perspective as I read the "new to me" Old Testament. I feel confident in the questions that I have of the handings down of men. We are after all easily fallible. Our salvation did not come to us by the works, or traditions of men. I feel that we should look at it further than is typical. Being comfortable doesn’t always mean you are where you should be. It is our thirst for the truth and Light of the world that leads us into the Uncomfort zone. Taking something that is taught by man could lead to pit falls. Traditionally we have been taught from solely the writings of the Apostles. These men were Jews, writing from a tradition/culture that is alien to most of us. We have been given voluminous insight and teachings through the Old Testament. This is also the Word of God. I did not write was the Word as He is constant.

Thank you Lord for the Gift of the Word.
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,258,383 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by quesodano View Post
It is my hope that as brothers we can understand that neither we nor the traditions of our fathers are the key to eternal life. As a growing follower of Christ my walk changes as my understanding changes. I pray that we seek this understanding by the gift of the Holy Spirit, as we read His Word. We are taught that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 NASB. Since the Word was with God in the beginning, and all things came into being thru Him.....perhaps we should pay attention to what was given us in the beginning so that we might better understand what the writers of the New Testament were trying to convey. My simple contention is that even when a truth is passed down the line by man, it changes on each reiteration. The only foundation that we have is the Word.

For so long as a believer did I concentrate on the writings of the New Testament as my foundation. Things seem to change perspective as I read the "new to me" Old Testament. I feel confident in the questions that I have of the handings down of men. We are after all easily fallible. Our salvation did not come to us by the works, or traditions of men. I feel that we should look at it further than is typical. Being comfortable doesn’t always mean you are where you should be. It is our thirst for the truth and Light of the world that leads us into the Uncomfort zone. Taking something that is taught by man could lead to pit falls. Traditionally we have been taught from solely the writings of the Apostles. These men were Jews, writing from a tradition/culture that is alien to most of us. We have been given voluminous insight and teachings through the Old Testament. This is also the Word of God. I did not write was the Word as He is constant.

Thank you Lord for the Gift of the Word.
Tremendous wisdom there!
I should have underlined ALL of it!
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:20 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,584,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio View Post
It think the Sabbath is a shadow, a type, of creation's seventh millennium - the 1000 years when Jesus reigns as King of kings.
It is true that the Sabbath was a shadow of the time of Christ's reign.. but I believe that this reign is now.

The salvation story has been fulfilled.. we can all have rest in Christ, and He reigns in our hearts as we reign above sin. The Sabbath is now done away and replaced with this rest in our hearts.

As Jesus said, "the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath". I believe that it is good and necessary to have a day of rest from our physical labors and meet together with spiritual brothers & sisters. But we do this not because we are commanded to, but because we want to.
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,258,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
It is true that the Sabbath was a shadow of the time of Christ's reign.. but I believe that this reign is now.

The salvation story has been fulfilled.. we can all have rest in Christ, and He reigns in our hearts as we reign above sin. The Sabbath is now done away and replaced with this rest in our hearts.

As Jesus said, "the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath". I believe that it is good and necessary to have a day of rest from our physical labors and meet together with spiritual brothers & sisters. But we do this not because we are commanded to, but because we want to.
While I disagree with your first two points, we're in total agreement on the third, CG.
The Law is to be kept with the freedom of the spirit of the Law and not by the letter.
Regulations hold no salvation, only Jesus.

As to the first two points... some believe as you do and that's fine with me.
Is that "A-Mill"?

I don't expect everyone (or anyone - actually) to agree with me on the Sabbath.

However, I do think Jesus will come again in bodily form.
Acts 1:11 They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky?
This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven,
will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:59 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,584,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio View Post

However, I do think Jesus will come again in bodily form.
Acts 1:11 They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky?
This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven,
will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."
I agree that He will come again in bodily form.. but that will be at the end of the world when He comes to judge the world and take all the righteous home with Him.

I explained what I believe in these threads:

The kingdom of God
1000 year reign of Christ...already here, or coming?

Feel free to look those over and comment!

So not to take this off-topic, tho, what are your thoughts on Jesus' views regarding the Sabbath?
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,258,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
...

So not to take this off-topic, tho, what are your thoughts on Jesus' views regarding the Sabbath?
I will look at them. Thank you.

I think Jesus’ views were…
That we were to keep the Sabbath, but not at the expense of doing good to others.
That the Sabbath was created for our benefit; when confronted with no other option than to “break” the Sabbath, we are not to feel guilty.
The “work” to be avoided would be chores which could be performed at other times, but things like the care and feeding of animals aren’t an issue.
Commerce would be “work” which we should avoid on the Sabbath, unless there is absolutely no other option.
It is a day to rest and renew ourselves - so we can be about our Father’s work.
That He is Lord of the Sabbath and our righteousness comes from faith in Him, not adhering to regulation - even keeping the Sabbath.

I believe these are the specifics and the spirit of what Jesus taught about the Sabbath.
I’d agree with all these.
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Old 11-24-2008, 12:33 PM
 
3,679 posts, read 487,841 times
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Thank you all for your input on this thread.


Betsey and Richio I agree that it is about being aware of what the Sabbath is - a day of rest where our focus is not on the activities of commerce and worldly activities, it is not about ritual observance as much as awareness of setting aside the day that God blessed and hallowed.

I don't think it is wrong to meet on any day of the week, I tend to think it is wrong to elevate Sunday above the Sabbath because of Jesus rising from the dead on the 1st day. We are only given assumptions that the Sabbath is no longer blessed and hallowed. Even with the Sabbath we are not honouring the day so much as honouring God on that day.
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Old 11-24-2008, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,258,383 times
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As a Sabbath keeper, I always keep this in mind…
So I don’t judge Christians who keep Sunday as tradition.
Nor do I wish to be held to any standard other than faith in Christ - crucified for my sins.
I find that God is just as active in their lives.


Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Col 2:16,17


I may inform people about my beliefs.
What they do is between God and themselves.

I try to be careful that my views not be a pathway for others to begin following the letter of the Law.
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:42 AM
 
302 posts, read 468,999 times
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COLOSSIANS 2:16
Whenever the question of the Sabbath is discussed, those who do not keep it holy will inevitably appeal to Colossians 2:16 as their authority for disobeying the fourth commandment of God.
What exactly did Paul mean when he wrote: "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:" (KJV)

Yes, when Paul said "Sabbaths" he meant the seventh day Sabbath - but that does not mean that Paul was canceling the requirement for obedience to a commandment of God. What God has commanded only God can set aside. One may search the New Testament for a thousand years and he will not find a single verse that says God has abrogated one "jot or tittle" of His fourth commandment.

What then was Paul talking about when he said to let no man judge you in respect of Sabbaths? When we look at this verse in its context it soon becomes apparent that Paul was warning about the "Colossian Heresy" which was another gospel based on asceticism and the worship of angels in order to gain assistance from cosmic powers. The essence of this heresy was that Christ alone was not sufficient to deliver us from our slavery to sin. As you will see from the following verses, Paul was warning against three things that were being added to the gospel.
1. Traditions of men.
2. The worship of angels.
3. Submitting to doctrines of men.
COL 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. \
COL 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:
COL 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
COL 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using AFTER THE COMMANDMENTS AND DOCTRINES OF MEN?

KEEPING THE SABBATH DAY HOLY IS NOT A DOCTRINE OF MEN!
Paul was not doing away with God's commandment; he was warning against the false teachers who were saying that if believers did not eat and drink the right food and keep the festivals, new moons and Sabbaths ACCORDING TO CERTAIN HUMAN REGULATIONS they would lose their reward.
According to verse :23 below, they were teaching that without these ascetic regulations one could not overcome the flesh:
COL 2:23 These [DOCTRINES OF MEN] have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting rigor of devotion and self-abasement and severity to the body, but they are of no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh. (RSV)
One commentator summed up these verses by saying: "We conclude then that in verse :16, the warning is not against the Sabbath, festivals and dietary laws as such, but rather against those who promote these practices as indispensable aids to Christian perfection and as needed protection from the 'elements [evil spiritual forces] of the world' thus denying the all sufficiency of Christ."
(Samuele Bacchiocchi, From Sabbath To Sunday)
Now really, doesn't that explanation make a lot more sense than the notion that Christians are no longer required to obey the fourth commandment? It is a true saying that: "The commandment is not nullified by the condemnation of its abuse.". The question we need to ask is this: "Was Paul condemning the Sabbath day, or was he CONDEMNING THE DOCTRINES OF MEN who added ritualistic and ascetic restrictions to faith in Christ?"

In order to answer that dispute, one must look t the broad picture. There is not a single verse in the
New Testament which states that Paul taught a new doctrine that canceled the Sabbath Commandment; nor is there any record of a controversy between the Jews and Gentile Christians over Sabbath-keeping. If Paul had been teaching that the Sabbath commandment had been repealed, it would have split the church wide open and he would have had to answer the objections continuously in his epistles. Think about it - if the Jewish believers made such a fuss about circumcision being optional, imagine what they would have said about the Sabbath day being revoked. At some point we must use common sense and reason to interpret what has been written. For example, does "Let no man judge you in meat and drink..." mean that Christians can be drunkards? Of course not, because you know that God's word forbids drunkenness. Well, it also forbids Sabbath-breaking! It is only logical to assume that if God was going to cancel one of His commandments, he would make that fact very clear. Surely, if someone said to you: "Let no man judge you in respect of murder or adultery" you would not assume that God had changed His mind about those sins without solid proof. Certainly, you would demand more evidence than one lonely verse in the book of Colossians. Or would you?

Donna Kupp
NOTE: In addition to the Greek and Latin manuscripts of the New Testament, there is a third text called the Pe****ta. The Pe****ta is from ancient Eastern manuscripts written in Aramaic, the natural language of Jesus. Hebrews 4:9 in the Pe****ta text reads: "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath."

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