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Old 12-17-2008, 09:26 AM
302 posts, read 467,491 times
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The 144,000 standing on Mount Zion must keep The Sabbath

"And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty and four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads." Rev 14:1 (ASV)

Mount Zion represents that exalted situation where Jehovah reigns and is worshipped in spirit and in truth. Anyone who has the name of the living God in their foreheads has been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb and has presented his body to God as a living sacrifice. That person is a servant of God. The name written on his forehead shows that he belongs to God.


The Mount Zion of ancient Israel is where David pitched the tent that the apostles have called "The tabernacle of David." That simple tent contained The Ten Commandments in The Ark of The Covenant.

Amos, an old testament prophet, spoke of a time when the tabernacle of David would be raised up and Gentiles would join themselves to the Lord, we read:

"In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this." Amos 9:11-12 (KJV)

Before and after the resurrection of Christ, Gentiles were joining themselves to the LORD. Because of their faith, they were turning from their many gods to serve the Creator of the heaven and the earth.
The council at Jerusalem declared the conversion of the Gentiles as the fulfillment of the words of the prophets -- and they specifically quoted Amos 9:11 See: Acts 15:14-18.


Today, the Gentiles who join themselves to the LORD, take hold of the New Covenant that God made with the house of Israel. Only those who keep the Sabbath holy and obey the Covenant can come to "His holy mountain" and fulfill this prophecy of Isaiah:

"Neither let the son of the stranger [Gentile], that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people ... the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, EVERY ONE THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH FROM POLLUTING IT, AND TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: ... for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people."
Isa 56-3-7 (KJV)

The Scriptures are absolutely clear ... Those whom God brings to His holy mountain are those who keep the Sabbath:

"...the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, Every one that keepth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant

"And I saw, and behold, the Lamb *STANDING ON THE MOUNT ZION*, and with him a hundred and forty and four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads." \
Rev 14:1 (ASV)

Donna Kupp
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Old 12-18-2008, 03:27 AM
302 posts, read 467,491 times
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Default Who wants to be a doorkeeper?

In the time of temptation, Satan tries to entice us to think that our choice in the matter will be of little consequence --either for good or evil.

It has been said: "There have been countless servants of God lifted up by Him to perform some minor detail, an un-noticed and un-sung chore, in His service and for His purpose."

Most of those unsung chores do go unnoticed by the world; and those faithful servants will often live and die in obscurity. Nevertheless, a great story of courage and devotion to God is sometimes recorded in the scriptures just waiting to be discovered ... I found this one in the Book of Numbers:

"Notwithstanding the children of Korah died not." Num 26:11 (KJV)

It was just a snippet of a phrase in an ancient genealogy --but oh, how it thrilled me as I started to see the unsung faithfulness of the children of Korah as they made their agonizing decision to leave the tent of their wicked father.

The children of Dathan, Abiram and others perished with their fathers when the earth opened her mouth and swallowed them up with Korah.

"Notwithstanding the children of Korah died not."

The children of Korah had the disadvantage of having a wicked father. (Even today, his name is associated with covetousness and self-seeking rebellion.) Nevertheless, they didn't use their father's sins as an excuse for their own.

The children of Korah took a stand for righteousness! Their father coveted the honor and position in the temple of burning incense; but the children of Korah were content to serve the Lord, according to His purpose. Here is a song of the sons of Korah ...

"For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness. For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly. O LORD of hosts, blessed is the man that trusteth in thee."
Ps 84:10-12 (KJV)

Those unsung heroes, whose names are almost forgotten, "died not" that day because they would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of the LORD than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.

The faith of the doorkeepers in the wilderness did not end with them. Their descendants sang before the army of Jehoshaphat when their praises to God resulted in one of the greatest victories recorded in human history.* Their Songs of Thanksgiving are on the lips of all who trust and obey the Lord.

Donna Kupp
* "...From Korah were descended the Korahites, or Korhites, first mentioned in Ex. vi. 24, and reappearing as Levites in Num. xxvi. 58 and I Chron. ix. 31. Several Psalms (xlii., xliv.-xlix., lxxxiv., lxxxv., lxxxvii., lxxviii.) are headed "for the sons of Korah," and the Korahites appear again as singers before Jehoshaphat fought the Moabites and Ammonites (II Chron. xx. 19). Several Korahite warriors joined David while he was at Ziklag (I Chron. xii. 6). Korahites are mentioned also as porters at, and gate-keepers of, the Tabernacle (I Chron. ix. 19, xxvi. 1, 19).J. Jr. C. J. M." JewishEncyclopia.com

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Old 12-20-2008, 01:31 AM
302 posts, read 467,491 times
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Default True Repentance From Sin

True Repentance From Sin

Salvation is the only subject where there can be no compromise of doctrine.

Conversion is linked with repentance. True repentance is a covenant with God to cease from all known sin completely and forever, with the mind that even if it were to cost you your life to obey, you would do it.

One must also have the understanding that if we turn back to willful sin - like the dog to his vomit - we will be lost forever.

Following are the verses in Ezekiel which prove that repentance is a one time event, and that one must cease from willful sin completely and forever in order to "live".

EZE 18:9 [He that] HATH WALKED in my statutes, and HATH KEPT my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.

EZE 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from ALL his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

EZE 18:24 But WHEN the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and COMMITTETH INIQUITY, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them SHALL HE DIE.
EZE 18:27 Again, WHEN the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and DOETH that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

28 Because he considereth, and TURNETH AWAY FROM ALL his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

EZE 18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from ALL YOUR TRANSGRESSIONS; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

31 Cast away from you ALL your transgressions, hereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

EZE 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked,
he shall not fall thereby IN THE DAY THAT HE TURNETH
from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness IN THE DAY THAT HE SINNETH.

EZE 33:14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he TURN FROM HIS SIN, and do that which is lawful and right;

15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, WITHOUT COMMITTING INIQUITY; he shall surely live, he shall not die.

EZE 3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous SIN NOT, and HE DOTH NOT SIN, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.
The last two verses make clear what Yahweh meant in the previous verses. "Sin not...doth not sin...without committing iniquity". Those are all absolutes; sin not means "not ever".

Repentance is truly done only once, (notice the "in the day that he turneth" in 33:12 above.)

If a man commits sin, he has not truly repented in the first place, or if he has repented and turns back by committing deliberate sin "in the day that he sinneth" he shall not live.

Paul taught the same thing in Hebrew 10:26 when he said: "For if we SIN WILFULLY after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he
was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
You can see that same idea of only one true repentance in Hebrews 6:4

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

Donna Kupp
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:16 AM
302 posts, read 467,491 times
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Default The Familiar Quibble: "We Are Not Under The Law!"

There is a difference between the ceremonial law and the Ten Commandments. The ceremonial law was abolished at the cross and the Ten Commandments are established in our hearts.

The Ten Commandments are the perfect law that defines sin. "...Sin is TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW." (1 John 3:4) They show us that we need to be forgiven and cleansed from the doing of sin. Those commandments are the royal law of God. They are the standard by which all men will be judged and chosen for eternal life. Jesus said: " ... If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matt 19:17

On the other hand, the ceremonial law was a temporary law that was "ADDED BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSIONS" until the seed [Christ] should come:

"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was ADDED BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSIONS, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; .." Gal 3:19

A spirit of anti-christ has crept into the church to undermine the authority of Jesus Christ as Lord. Men of lawlessness do this by twisting the words of Paul regarding the law - so that they appear to say that "faith renders the Christian free from obligation to obey The Ten Commandments." An example of this kind of perversion is their appeal to the text of Romans 10:1-4 to prove that the law does not apply to Christians.

However, upon close examination, the context of the text exposes their deceitfulness. Immediately, we will see that Paul is talking about unconverted Jews --NOT
CHRISTIANS! So the ceremonial law (even though it was only a shadow) is the only possible law they could have (through ignorance) been observing for forgiveness of sins.

From the time of their first Passover, the children learned the principle: "It is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul."*

The Apostle Paul: "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved."
Rom 10:1

Look! Paul is referring to people who were called Israel because of their natural birth. They were still unconverted Jews who did not have faith in the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins. That is why Paul was praying that they might be saved.

"For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge." Rom 10:2

Paul bears witness that his countrymen observed the ceremonial law with great earnestness; but they lacked the knowledge that THE LAW OF ORDINANCES (that regulated the priesthood with its rites and sacrifices) was abolished at the cross. They did not understand that the sacrifices of the ceremonial law could not take away sin or make anyone perfect.

"For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." Hebrews 10:1-4

Paul's countrymen were in a state of ignorance about God's plan of justification, through the death, burial and
resurrection of Christ. Instead of having faith in Christ as the true sin offering, they were striving for forgiveness and cleansing of sin by observing the many sacrifices and rites of the ceremonial law ...

"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God." Romans 10:3

The goal of the ceremonial law was to bring the descendants of Abraham to Christ for the forgiveness and cleansing of sin. Under that covenant, every time a
sacrifice was made, men of true faith would look forward to the coming of the promised seed who would save them from their sins.

"For Christ is the end* of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." Romans 10:4

The word "end" refers to the goal of the law - not the cessation of the law.

* #5056 END = telos. (to set out for a definite point or goal.) Strong's Greek/Hebrew Dictionary

The goal of the law is to lead us to Christ.
For example - Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical
Words states:

(b) "the final issue or result" of a state or process ... in
<Rom: 10:4>, Christ is described as 'the end of the Law unto righteousness to everyone that believeth'; this is best explained by <Gal. 3:23-26>;

"But before faith came, we were kept UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:23-26

The Ceremonial law was abolished at the cross. The
purpose for animal sacrifices ended as Jesus cried: "It is
finished." The veil of the temple was rent in two from the top to the bottom --and the ministry of the Levitical Priesthood had finished its work. The promised seed had come!


"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:4

"This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God;" Heb 10:16-21

The Ten Commandments are established in our lives by faith through obedience.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Rom 3:31 (KJV)

The Ten Commandments are engraved upon the hearts of the people who choose to obey them and have the faith of Jesus.

Donna Kupp

* "For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it for you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement, by reason of the life." Lev 17:11 (RSV)

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Old 12-20-2008, 12:20 PM
Location: Central US
852 posts, read 1,174,838 times
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Default Who are you to tell me I'm wrong?

So who are you to tell me I'm wrong? Who am I tell you that you are wrong? I don't.

So for those of us who truly believe that what we are doing is righteous and we have studied the bible to the best of our ability--we have been saved---does it really matter that different people interpret the bible differently? Hence, some believe the Holy Spirit can come to us..some don't. Some believe you should go to church on saturday...some on sunday....some believe they don't need to go at all. If we believe with all our heart that we are living by Gods laws and can find it in scripture for ourselves are we going to be hit with a technicality from God? I would like to think not. I think we can all read the bible and get different things from even the same scriptures. ---example Church of Christ believes in singing with no music(the music is in them)---others sing with music(instrumental)....I can see how both can feasibly validate their beliefs from the bible.

The Sabbath....some believe we live under the Liberty that Christ gave us.
I close my business because of my faith...I go to church because of my faith...I tell others of God because of my faith...I do many things because of my faith...and still others tell me I'm wrong?
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:03 PM
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,863,849 times
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Romans 14:5-8
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:48 PM
Location: Central Florida
71 posts, read 97,063 times
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Romans 14

Title says "Principles of Conscience"
Its a chapter I'm going over today with my family. I would be more inclined to title it "Watch Your Tolerance". As we are told to worry about our own judgment and conscience. We are also not to judge others and accept different levels of faith and convictions.

Any way, as for communicating ideas among brothers we are required to edify, rebuke, reprove as in
2Timothy 3: 16. Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.
17. That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.

As Brothers we should be careful how this is accomplished. We should also be careful that we are not too easily offended. Iron needs to sharpen iron.

Every thing according to His will... That we should love one another in all things.

Last edited by quesodano; 12-20-2008 at 02:56 PM..
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Old 12-20-2008, 05:27 PM
Location: Central Florida
71 posts, read 97,063 times
Reputation: 28
I must add 2 Timothy:
24. And the Lord's servant must not strive, but be gentle towards all, apt to teach, forbearing,
25. in meekness correcting them that oppose themselves; if peradventure God may give them repentance unto the knowledge of the truth,
26. and they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him unto his will.
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Old 12-21-2008, 01:08 AM
37,615 posts, read 25,312,999 times
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Originally Posted by sherryturner View Post
So who are you to tell me I'm wrong? Who am I tell you that you are wrong? I don't.
It is a ubiquitous human trait . . . We are to witness our understanding as we receive it from Jesus and the holy spirit . . . but that's all. Everything else is human vanity and ego which we are supposed to rise above in Christ.
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Old 12-21-2008, 05:04 AM
302 posts, read 467,491 times
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Default The Jerusalem Council

Deceived teachers use many sophistries to distort the scriptures regarding man's duty to obey the Sabbath Commandment. In their zeal to eliminate the Sabbath Commandment as a duty for Christians, they will often appeal to the controversy of the early church over Judaizers requiring Gentiles to be circumcised and commanding them to keep The Law of Moses. (The Yoke Of Bondage).

... And they will quote The Jerusalem Council's decree and say that since the council did not mention the Sabbath, the Sabbath Commandment was abolished. True to form, they will inevitably quote these verses:

"For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." Acts:15:28-29 (KJV)

Verses like that cannot cancel a holy Commandment of God. The Psalmist said: "ALL thy commandments are truth.". Anyone who adds to the truth --or takes away from the truth is a false witness.

On the contrary, two apostles give us proof that the Jerusalem decree did not eliminate The Sabbath Commandment. Let's listen to these unimpeachable witnesses who attended the meeting at Jerusalem:

"Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but {what matters is} THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD."
1Cor 7:19 (NAS)

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty." James 2:10-12 (KJV)

The One who said: "Do not kill", also said, "Remember The Sabbath Day to keep it holy."

When we consider the cultural differences of the Gentiles and Jews, it is easy to understand how The Jerusalem Council's edict brought joy and comfort to the brethren as it provided a basis for harmony. Let us look again at Acts:15:28-29 and see its true purpose:

"For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from MEATS OFFERED TO IDOLS, and from BLOOD, and FROM THINGS STRANGLED, and FROM FORNICATION: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." Acts:15:28-29 (KJV)

The Gentiles of the early church had been idolaters before they became believers in Jesus Christ. They had worshipped other gods and had known the depths of Satan. Part of their WORSHIP was human sacrifice, committing fornication with temple prostitutes, cruelty to animals when they sacrificed them to idols and licentious feasts where they ate the meat and blood of their victims.

The decision of the council was a moral discipline, or instruction, that served to show Gentiles things that were deeply offensive to the Jews (and God). It also protected them from drifting back into their old way of idolatry. The apostles and elder's decision upheld the Ten Commandments, just like Paul said:

"Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, WE UPHOLD THE LAW." Romans 3:31 RSV

However, some people who oppose Sabbath observance for Christians (especially gentile Christians) will still say something like this:

"The apostles and elders in Jerusalem mentioned not with a word that they must hold the Sabbath."

I would say to them, please consider this: The issue before the council was: Should Gentiles be circumcised and keep "The Yoke Of Bondage"? After nearly two millenniums, we are still hearing about the dissension that certain men from Judaea caused when they went to Antioch and taught the brethren, and said: "Except ye be circumcised after the
manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved." Acts 15:1

The Sabbath wasn't discussed --because it wasn't a problem. The Gentiles were already observing the Sabbath. The silence of the apostles and elders about any controversy over the Sabbath Commandment is shouting evidence that no problem existed.

Donna Kupp

"And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next SABBATH. Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. And the next SABBATH DAY came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God." Acts 13:42-44 (KJV)

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