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Old 11-06-2008, 08:02 AM
 
1,492 posts, read 6,778,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happynoodleboycey View Post
But why should he have to worry. Surely if something needs to happen for the best he can engineer it?
You've been awful presumptive.... 'why should he have to worry" - I've not ever heard anyone but you say that He does.

Remember these forums are great to share info, ideas, etc. But you should look within yourself and read the scriptures and pray for the truth to be revealed to you. Perhaps the forums aren't the best place for you to get your answers.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:12 AM
 
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If God's will is done anyway, there is no point in prayer. God doesn't need you to ask him to do something he was already going to do.
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Old 11-06-2008, 02:10 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,554,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
If God's will is done anyway, there is no point in prayer. God doesn't need you to ask him to do something he was already going to do.
That's the easy answer that Christians use, but because this walk is a relationship, He wants our wills united.

Prayer does change things - the things in we see in the mirror.
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Old 11-06-2008, 07:29 PM
 
Location: All around the world.....
2,886 posts, read 7,361,521 times
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by happynoodleboycey View Post
Hey,

I just have a question I'd like to ask regarding praying for things. People always talk about "God's will" and that it will always be done. My question is, if something in God's will will be done nomatter what, and if something that isn't in God's will won't happen, then what is the point of praying? Surely you're not going to change God's will so why bother asking for things if the 'answer' is already preconceived? Surely if something you ask for takes place then it was always going to happen anyway because of it being in God's will, and if something you ask for doesn't happen then it was never going to. Doesn't this make asking for things in prayer a futile and ultimately pointless exercise? It's something that's always puzzled me.

Yours wonderingly,

happynoodleboycey


God's Will is God's word;
So when we pray we must pray according to His will, but if we don't know what His Word says about a particular matter, then we don't know what to pray, there are specifics for example Mark11 and a few other scriptures that give us direction on how to pray and when and what is God's will about it.
We have a will and if we pray according to our will, most times we will be hoping for something that is not good for us,
For example it is not God's will for us to marry or be with someone's spouse
just because we are attracted to them for whatever reason, if they are married "hands off"
You can pray until the cows come home that the person that you desire to be with is not married any longer to their respective spouses and leave them to be "happily ever after" your soul mate...but if you rebel against his word, He will allow you to have it , as a lesson. ( a costly one at that) This type of desire is not in God's will. not for those who are servants of His.
Or let's say you hate someone because of whatever reason, and you pray that they evaporate from the face of the earth so that you can feel vindicated, ..It's not God's will, to hate one another....
We have a will to do a thing , just as Adam did , and can easily find ourselves walking in the path of destruction because we are deceived into thinking that this thing is better than what God says (His Will)
And we reap the consequences of our decisions...

The word says that when you pray that He will give you the desires of your heart, (but only if they line up with His will) or you are in His will. which I reiterate is His Word (written word)
But we cannot get this mixed up with satan, he will answer your desires too, if you serve him, and this is only because God can allow him full rights over you if you are not in His Will, and rebellion against God is not His Will; so he'll let you do your thing. Or I should say since satan is the god of this world, he has God's permission to do what he please with you, as long as you are separated from God.
Hope I explained it where it answered some of your questions, I may not have all of the answers for you, but the written word of God does. Holy Spirit inspired , guaranteed to help you understand everything and it will make sense to you then and only then.
But God's will definitely will be done;........ the buck stops with him

God Bless You
thanks for stopping by CD, we're glad to have you here..
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:51 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,772,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasGrace View Post
We pray that God's will be done. But that means allowing Him to do His will.

The Lord gives us free will so even though the Lord's will is for someone to not do something....we pray we will NOT do it.
I do not believe that we have free will. God is the only one with absolute free will. We should want what God wants. We should pray trusting God. When you put all of your trust ...I mean all of your trust in God..then it really doesn`t matter what you want. Prayer is more for us than God. It reassures us that God is in control. If you feel something heavy on your heart to pray about then it is because God is drawing you to pray...to make you aware that without him you are nothing. Prayer only moves mountains if it is God`s will for it to be moved. I believe prayer is a way that God shows us how much we are dependent on him and not of ourselves. Anyone who has ever been at the end of their rope and in total dispair knows what I mean. We learn that prayer only availeth much when it is in tune with God`s will. I heard someone say one time that when they really feel moved to pray they get excited because they know God is getting ready to move in their life.
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Old 11-09-2008, 12:58 PM
 
116 posts, read 277,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happynoodleboycey View Post
Hey,

I just have a question I'd like to ask regarding praying for things. People always talk about "God's will" and that it will always be done. My question is, if something in God's will will be done nomatter what, and if something that isn't in God's will won't happen, then what is the point of praying? Surely you're not going to change God's will so why bother asking for things if the 'answer' is already preconceived? Surely if something you ask for takes place then it was always going to happen anyway because of it being in God's will, and if something you ask for doesn't happen then it was never going to. Doesn't this make asking for things in prayer a futile and ultimately pointless exercise? It's something that's always puzzled me.

Yours wonderingly,

happynoodleboycey
God's will is not always "done". Is it God's will that women are raped, children are beaten, or people are murdered? Of course not! All these things happen because God gives us a "free will" so that we come to Him freely, and without force. If God's will were always done, we would not have a choice in anything we do. Prayer comes in as the most powerful tool His people have. Again...God wants us to come freely to him...He waits to be asked. When we go before Him in prayer, our faith can move mountains!
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Old 11-09-2008, 04:51 PM
 
428 posts, read 1,487,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daisiesnfreckles View Post
God's will is not always "done". Is it God's will that women are raped, children are beaten, or people are murdered? Of course not! All these things happen because God gives us a "free will" so that we come to Him freely, and without force. If God's will were always done, we would not have a choice in anything we do. Prayer comes in as the most powerful tool His people have. Again...God wants us to come freely to him...He waits to be asked. When we go before Him in prayer, our faith can move mountains!
But I think the poster was talking about God's omniscience. I am agnostic, but I've thought about the Free Will thing. I have never figured out how you could have both an omniscient God and Free Will. If God knows all, then he already knows every choice I will make. So in essence, I have no free will, because my actions are already known. If I could have chosen to do something different, then God would have been wrong. And that can't be the case, because God is never wrong. So...I only think I have made a choice. Since all must be preordained, prayer, while it may be ordained as well, can actually make no difference. (Not counting the comfort it gives the person praying.)
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Old 11-09-2008, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,452,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozart271 View Post
But I think the poster was talking about God's omniscience. I am agnostic, but I've thought about the Free Will thing. I have never figured out how you could have both an omniscient God and Free Will. If God knows all, then he already knows every choice I will make. So in essence, I have no free will, because my actions are already known. If I could have chosen to do something different, then God would have been wrong. And that can't be the case, because God is never wrong. So...I only think I have made a choice. Since all must be preordained, prayer, while it may be ordained as well, can actually make no difference. (Not counting the comfort it gives the person praying.)
Sounds like you've got it all figured out, but have you ever tried it? Prayer that is? Have you proven "your" theory?
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:49 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,772,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozart271 View Post
But I think the poster was talking about God's omniscience. I am agnostic, but I've thought about the Free Will thing. I have never figured out how you could have both an omniscient God and Free Will. If God knows all, then he already knows every choice I will make. So in essence, I have no free will, because my actions are already known. If I could have chosen to do something different, then God would have been wrong. And that can't be the case, because God is never wrong. So...I only think I have made a choice. Since all must be preordained, prayer, while it may be ordained as well, can actually make no difference. (Not counting the comfort it gives the person praying.)
As humans we make choices. But our choices are caused by something else. There is something causing us to act therefore we don`t have total free will. Only God has absolute free will. Nothing causes God to act. Our choices are not free from an external cause therefore they are not free! God says without me you can do nothing. That means nothing as in nothing. If God wants you to do a certain thing..you will do it. He will put circumstances in your life to make you choose what he wants you to do. He will lead you to a certain place if that is where he wants you to go. But because in our finite human minds,we see ourselves physically carrying out the act we believe we are doing things independent of God. Our pride will not let us understand and believe that there is an Amighty God who controls this world and his creation. We don`t want anybody telling us what to do or how to act. A computer makes choices. A computer makes choices based on the information you give it. The choice it makes is dependent on the information it is giving.Would you say a computer has free will. You can look at a computer proceess and spit out information but our logic tells us the computer does not have free will. We process info and make decisions but we think God had nothing to do with it. We did it all by ourselves just like the computer did it all by itself.
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Old 11-10-2008, 05:32 AM
 
428 posts, read 1,487,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
Sounds like you've got it all figured out, but have you ever tried it? Prayer that is? Have you proven "your" theory?
It isn't "my" theory, what I said was just an extension of logic: If God is omniscient, there can be no human free will. I am agnostic, so I don't have a belief in a Judeo-Christian God who intervenes in anything. Thus I also don't believe prayer can do anything that any strong belief can't do. If prayer gives you comfort and strength then you may be better off for it. And yes, I have tried it in the past.

I can't personally prove anything about prayer from my own experiences. There are, however, studies that have shown no effect when sick people are prayed for without their knowledge vs when they are not.
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