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Old 11-06-2008, 08:09 AM
 
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Ok, ok, I did break down and buy the book The Shack ( Who here has read "The Shack" ) but I just got it the other day and am only half-way thru. I may talk about the book within the above referenced thread later on, but right now I wanted to focus on one point.. the relationships of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit (Papa, Elousia and Sarayu in the book/allegory) and the relationship God (they) desire to have with us.

This brings me to the following questions:

Why did God create us? Wasn't it because He wanted to have a Creation to shower His love on, and He wanted this to be a voluntary relationship in order for this to bring glory to His name? A forced, predestined relationship really is no relationship at all.. kidnappers and abductees (is that a word?) may have a certain relationship, yet it is lacking. This is not the relationship God is looking for.

Where do we find ourself in the Plan?

Note: This discussion is not limited to those who have read the book!

Last edited by cg81; 11-06-2008 at 08:37 AM..
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:14 AM
 
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Default It is a mutual love relationship that God desires....

I just posted in another thread about the love relationship that God desires to have with us and then saw your thread.

Amen!
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:27 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,462,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
Ok, ok, I did break down and buy the book The Shack ( Who here has read "The Shack" ) but I just got it the other day and am only half-way thru. I may talk about the book within the above referenced thread later on, but right now I wanted to focus on one point.. the relationships of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit (Papa, Elousia and Sarayu in the book/allegory) and the relationship God (they) desire to have with us.

This brings me to the following questions:

Why did God create us? Wasn't it because He wanted to have a Creation to shower His love on, and He wanted this to be a voluntary relationship in order for this to bring glory to His name? A forced, predestined relationship really is no relationship at all.. kidnappers and abductees (is that a word?) may have a certain relationship, yet it is lacking. This is not the relationship God is looking for.

Where do we find ourself in the Plan?

Note: This discussion is not limited to those who have read the book!
Quote:
Where do we find ourself in the Plan?
We find ourselves smack dab in the middle of it. It is all about Jesus, from the very beginning.

We are the Kingdom of God, with a King. We are the Body of Christ, with a Head. We are the Church, with a Teacher. We are the Bride, awaiting the Bridegroom. We are the Sheep, led by the Shepard.

Although I would agree that relationships are what God truly desires, it really is us doing the desiring. We, as humans, feel the disconnect that only Jesus can restore. The Love above all Loves, that expresses who and what the Father is. We can be fulfilled INTO this Love, or remain in a disconnected state, left to our own demise. Deep down everyone hopes for God to exist.

Though they may ponder the age old questions concerning the what, whens, and whys, they still hope. Some are scared, and others are indifferent. Others wait, anticipating the day they are reunited to Him. Some find it now, while they yet remain alive. I desire this, as well.
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:09 AM
 
Location: In the North Idaho woods, still surrounded by terriers
2,178 posts, read 6,275,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
Ok, ok, I did break down and buy the book The Shack ( Who here has read "The Shack" ) but I just got it the other day and am only half-way thru. I may talk about the book within the above referenced thread later on, but right now I wanted to focus on one point.. the relationships of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit (Papa, Elousia and Sarayu in the book/allegory) and the relationship God (they) desire to have with us.

This brings me to the following questions:

Why did God create us? Wasn't it because He wanted to have a Creation to shower His love on, and He wanted this to be a voluntary relationship in order for this to bring glory to His name? A forced, predestined relationship really is no relationship at all.. kidnappers and abductees (is that a word?) may have a certain relationship, yet it is lacking. This is not the relationship God is looking for.

Where do we find ourself in the Plan?

Note: This discussion is not limited to those who have read the book!
This is interesting because to me...a non-Christian... as it sights the entire boondoggle of Christianity that makes no sense. Why on earth would a god create all of this to give Him glory and to shower us with His love, when He also knew how everything would turn out? Please do not cite the Free-Will thing because there is no free-will when the end is already known. It is a huge conundrum, totally illogical, and ultimately very frustrating when I hear the "answers"...free will, just have faith, etc. If I knew that my children would inevitably grow up to hate me or deny me or ignore me, no matter how much choice they had, why on earth would I have them? It's sort of a self-mutilating act...
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,643,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esselcue View Post
This is interesting because to me...a non-Christian... as it sights the entire boondoggle of Christianity that makes no sense. Why on earth would a god create all of this to give Him glory and to shower us with His love, when He also knew how everything would turn out? Please do not cite the Free-Will thing because there is no free-will when the end is already known. It is a huge conundrum, totally illogical, and ultimately very frustrating when I hear the "answers"...free will, just have faith, etc. If I knew that my children would inevitably grow up to hate me or deny me or ignore me, no matter how much choice they had, why on earth would I have them? It's sort of a self-mutilating act...
This is the casting call, for the rest of eternity. What part will we play?

We are that we might have Joy.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:20 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,653,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esselcue View Post
This is interesting because to me...a non-Christian... as it sights the entire boondoggle of Christianity that makes no sense. Why on earth would a god create all of this to give Him glory and to shower us with His love, when He also knew how everything would turn out? Please do not cite the Free-Will thing because there is no free-will when the end is already known. It is a huge conundrum, totally illogical, and ultimately very frustrating when I hear the "answers"...free will, just have faith, etc. If I knew that my children would inevitably grow up to hate me or deny me or ignore me, no matter how much choice they had, why on earth would I have them? It's sort of a self-mutilating act...
God's plan is redemption.. not self-mutilation. That is the devil's plan.

And God totally puts Himself out to have this relationship with us.. which sometimes means "limiting" Himself. He limited Himself to come down to us, living among us as man, and this same "limitation" (if you want to call it that) in His relationship to us makes Him relate to every person in the same way... whether they are going to serve Him or not. He may even limit His foreknowledge about this... at any rate, He shows His love to everyone in this world and loves all equally.

We are cursed by our own sin.. hell was not created for us: it was created for the devil and his angels. Because of the nature of the relationship God desires (voluntary), we can choose to follow the devil and go along to his reward.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:15 AM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,473,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
God's plan is redemption.. not self-mutilation. That is the devil's plan.

And God totally puts Himself out to have this relationship with us.. which sometimes means "limiting" Himself. He limited Himself to come down to us, living among us as man, and this same "limitation" (if you want to call it that) in His relationship to us makes Him relate to every person in the same way... whether they are going to serve Him or not. He may even limit His foreknowledge about this... at any rate, He shows His love to everyone in this world and loves all equally.

We are cursed by our own sin.. hell was not created for us: it was created for the devil and his angels. Because of the nature of the relationship God desires (voluntary), we can choose to follow the devil and go along to his reward.
I thought God made the devil. He made everything right? If he made the devil, and is omniscient, then he knew what would happen after the devil was made.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:06 PM
 
Location: In the North Idaho woods, still surrounded by terriers
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Yes, Logic, that was my whole point in my post. Christians say God knows everything that is going to happen...why, oh, why are we then punished by an eternity of Hell when we don't believe in a Christian God (I am not an atheist). Did God know when we were born or conceived what our beliefs would be? It's too contrary to even wrap my brain around. And now He might "limit" his foreknowledge? Where did that come from?
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:11 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,653,174 times
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Originally Posted by esselcue View Post
And now He might "limit" his foreknowledge? Where did that come from?
Whether He limits His foreknowledge or not, I don't know.. but He certainly could.

Regardless, He offers to everyone this same relationship. It is then their choice. From the moment someone exists, (or even before they exist) God wants them for His child and does all He can, within His plan, to make this possible for all.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,556 posts, read 11,861,924 times
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Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
I thought God made the devil. He made everything right? If he made the devil, and is omniscient, then he knew what would happen after the devil was made.
True, and this does not frustrate biblical teaching.

I believe that one (among many) aspect of God's relationship with us is that unlike our relationship with our children, He can and does reach into our hearts to turn them on His schedule. No one can come to Him without being drawn to Him (John 6:44), but we can only see what is apparant in this life - and so many Christians fail to see the dispensation of His plan.
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