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I am not sure that I understand what you are asking, Cg81. I believe that God had a purpose for the darkness that entered into the creation. He is not leaving Himself vulnerable. He knew and knows how people will respond because He sees beginning to end.
God does not, and did not ever, desire sin to take control of the world and our lives. However, He wanted a voluntary, a real relationship with His creation.. and in a real relationship, there is a back door. You are not bound. Thus, man very soon chose the back door, but God made a remedy.
I believe that having a creation that would voluntarily worship and commune with Him was his purpose in creation.. rather than having a purpose of creating sin so that people would fall into it and then be rescued... what kind of relationship is that? Doesn't sound very healthy to me.
You asked this:
Quote:
How could we know Him as a Savior, as a Deliverer, know of His agape love and forgiveness, for undeserving creatures unless we were in a position which called for this revelation? How would we even know to choose righteousenss, to appreciate His righteousness and holiness without realizing what darkness is?
We only needed a Savior BECAUSE we fell into sin. God would have been thrilled I'm sure if Adam and Eve, and their succeeding generations would have never sinned (voluntarily obeying) and were still in the garden of Eden. However, we sinned.. and still sin. But God is calling every person in this life, and all can have a relationship with Him that is almost like the garden of Eden.
God has made a way to set the captives free. No one is blinded and held captive anymore by forces beyond what God can set free. However, many are content to remain in this bound state. If they do not accept the offer of release, there will be no victory in their life if they are sent to an eternal hell. As you said, everything will be under God's feet. Satan will win no victory in hell.
2 Cor. 4 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, even as we obtained mercy, we faint not:
2 but we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by the manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in them that perish: 4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them.
Who has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, Cg81? God is able to set all captives free and He will put an end to all rule, power, and authority, including that belonging to the god of this world/age. (1 Cor. 15) If people end up in an eternal hell, this will be no victory for them, that's true, but here we will have the end result of the power of darkness, sin, and satan, and this lasting for all of eternity! Satan who has blinded the hearts will have been victorious. But the True Light which enlightens every man has come into the world. (John 1) God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 11-06-2008 at 03:39 PM..
But the True Light which enlightens every man has come into the world. (John 1)
Absolutely! Think about it.
Every man in this world is enlightened by this True Light which is now among us... it shines on everyone's life. Not a forcing, but a guiding light shining in the darkness.
How could we know Him as a Savior, as a Deliverer, know of His agape love and forgiveness, for undeserving creatures unless we were in a position which called for this revelation? How would we even know to choose righteousenss, to appreciate His righteousness and holiness without realizing what darkness is?
We only needed a Savior BECAUSE we fell into sin. God would have been thrilled I'm sure if Adam and Eve, and their succeeding generations would have never sinned (voluntarily obeying) and were still in the garden of Eden. However, we sinned.. and still sin. But God is calling every person in this life, and all can have a relationship with Him that is almost like the garden of Eden.
Hi, I believe that God wants us to know Him as Savior, to know the depth of His love for us, to realize the agape love that He has for us. Jesus was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. In seeing beginning to end, God knew everything that would happen, and I believe that purposed for this to happen. God bless
Every man in this world is enlightened, or drawn to, this True Light which is now among us. Not a forcing, but a guiding light shining in the darkness
Cg81, to be drawn to something indicates a kind of force, doesn't it? Jesus has said that He will draw all to Himself -and- all are to be subjected to Him. This involves a kind of force. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess... joyfully, gladly. God bless.
Every man in this world is enlightened by this True Light which is now among us... it shines on everyone's life. Not a forcing, but a guiding light shining in the darkness.
And it is up to us to follow.
cg81, do you really think that all the billions who have supposedly gone to hell heard the gospel?
Hi, I believe that God wants us to know Him as Savior, to know the depth of His love for us, to realize the agape love that He has for us. Jesus was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. In seeing beginning to end, God knew everything that would happen, and I believe that purposed for this to happen. God bless
But again, think about this abit. Would your friend appreciate you if you walked up to them and pushed them into a pit so that they would know you as a rescuer? Would that strengthen your relationship and make it more meaningful?
But again, think about this abit. Would your friend appreciate you if you walked up to them and pushed them into a pit so that they would know you as a rescuer? Would that strengthen your relationship and make it more meaningful?
That's scriptural, actually.
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope (Rom 8:20)
cg81, do you really think that all the billions who have supposedly gone to hell heard the gospel?
God has promised (and is able) to reach every man, and to judge accordingly, looking at the heart and realizing if they have followed what was required of them.
Jesus is the only way, and He died for all.. but does this mean that only those that "hear the gospel" (as we in our enlightened land are used to using the term) will be saved? In other words, know the salvation story, say the "sinner's prayer", etc? Obviously, not all will have heard... but I believe that God's moral code is instilled in each heart, and His Spirit is able to speak to each one and lead those who may have never heard of Jesus. From those, not "all" will be required... but if they have followed what God HAS required of them, Jesus' blood will still be the remedy that covers their sin.
We are only accountable to God when He has already called us to repent.. which means He has called us (in whatever way this will be)! It is then up to us to follow the call.
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope (Rom 8:20)
Elmer, I marvel at your talent of pairing up obscure scripture with a certain doctrinal interpretation... but I must admit I fail to see how this verse fits the example.
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