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Old 11-07-2008, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 5,962,258 times
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Humility. We ( but mostly me ) need Humility.
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Old 11-07-2008, 10:09 AM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,251,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
To borrow a line from a song, "between the velvet lies, there's a truth that's hard as steel."

We must remember - God has not failed us, it has been the voices representing Him that have faltered.


Oh my goodness. I don't think I've ever heard anyone ever quote lyrics from my favorite band from the 80's.

WOWOWOWOWOW!

I don't listen to them anymore because I'm pretty sure his lyrics were quite laden with negative religious messages, but as soon as I read that, I knew who it was from!
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Old 11-07-2008, 10:43 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,558,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post


Oh my goodness. I don't think I've ever heard anyone ever quote lyrics from my favorite band from the 80's.

WOWOWOWOWOW!

I don't listen to them anymore because I'm pretty sure his lyrics were quite laden with negative religious messages, but as soon as I read that, I knew who it was from!
I know!
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Old 11-07-2008, 10:52 AM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,773,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Not that sin doesn't matter, but the general feeling is if the plan is laid out for all to be saved, then why preach the gospel at all. I have heard this from univs as well as those who claim to be Christian. The unbelievers say, COOL!, as now i don't need to believe, if this doctrine is truth. All roads lead to _ _ _ _ _.
God is molding us and showing us his love and who he is and who we are. The way he does that is by contrast. We have to understand evil and sadness to fully appreciate goodness and love. For us to understand where we would be without the love of God if he just left us here and left us to our own devices..well just take a look around at this world. We need God,we need his love,we need his goodness but because we are human and live in the here and now in a physical world we have come to believe that we are living and making decisions on our own apart from God. It appears to us in our limited finite minds and human logic that we act of our own accord independent of anything else. That`s one of the big issues I have with the church teaching an eternal torment..it makes no sense..it goes against the very nature of God. The same people who claim how much they love God would never ever ever think about torturing their children forever or torturing someone they love but yet they believe God is justified in doing something that if a human did it would be considered to be evil. Jesus tells us to love our enemies but yet the church believes he will torture people he loves in a never ending fire....no sense. At the very least why not just let them perish or send them to some remote planet to live apart from God since the argument the church uses is..well they deserved it anyway because they didn`t want God in their life and he`s just giving them what they wanted. The bible says every knee will bow and tongue confess TO THE GLORY OF GOD. Jesus told the Father forgive them THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO! They didn`t know or understand what they were doing..it was all part of God`s will. We follow God because he opens our eyes to his love...not because we are afraid of some literal burning torture chamber. If any person believes in the love of God they will want to believe because their eyes have been opened and they see the truth not because they are believing in someone because they are afraid.
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Old 11-07-2008, 01:13 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,374,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
God is molding us and showing us his love and who he is and who we are. The way he does that is by contrast. We have to understand evil and sadness to fully appreciate goodness and love. For us to understand where we would be without the love of God if he just left us here and left us to our own devices..well just take a look around at this world. We need God,we need his love,we need his goodness but because we are human and live in the here and now in a physical world we have come to believe that we are living and making decisions on our own apart from God. It appears to us in our limited finite minds and human logic that we act of our own accord independent of anything else. That`s one of the big issues I have with the church teaching an eternal torment..it makes no sense..it goes against the very nature of God. The same people who claim how much they love God would never ever ever think about torturing their children forever or torturing someone they love but yet they believe God is justified in doing something that if a human did it would be considered to be evil. Jesus tells us to love our enemies but yet the church believes he will torture people he loves in a never ending fire....no sense. At the very least why not just let them perish or send them to some remote planet to live apart from God since the argument the church uses is..well they deserved it anyway because they didn`t want God in their life and he`s just giving them what they wanted. The bible says every knee will bow and tongue confess TO THE GLORY OF GOD. Jesus told the Father forgive them THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO! They didn`t know or understand what they were doing..it was all part of God`s will. We follow God because he opens our eyes to his love...not because we are afraid of some literal burning torture chamber. If any person believes in the love of God they will want to believe because their eyes have been opened and they see the truth not because they are believing in someone because they are afraid.
Wow this would take some type in a response, so let us look at the overall theme. God is love, so why would He______(fill it in with the evils of this world, or our expectations of the next). This could go for a myriad of things, but never the less, this statement it Truth. But at the same time, although God is Love, He is also Just. He has to be, as He is the Judge. As far as punishments go, I still think it is best to leave that to Him. But there will be punishments, as that is what Christ said.

Quote:
The same people who claim how much they love God would never ever ever think about torturing their children forever or torturing someone they love but yet they believe God is justified in doing something that if a human did it would be considered to be evil.
But He is God, not human. His Way is Higher than anything we can fathom.

Quote:
At the very least why not just let them perish or send them to some remote planet to live apart from God since the argument the church uses is..well they deserved it anyway because they didn`t want God in their life and he`s just giving them what they wanted.
That seems plausible, as does every other argument. All can be quoted from the Bible, so as far as preaching goes, why not forgo this argument. The after life, is after this life. Who knows the mind of God? Maybe there will be millions of chances to come to Him for eternity, until all do? We don't know, as we aren't there. See the point?

Quote:
Jesus told the Father forgive them THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO!
But yet they believed in God, just not Jesus as King. Their hearts were hardened.

Quote:
They didn`t know or understand what they were doing..it was all part of God`s will.
This can be the case for everything, good and bad that has or ever will happen. God's Will be done always, even in the midst of our wills.

Quote:
We follow God because he opens our eyes to his love...not because we are afraid of some literal burning torture chamber.
This is Christ like. How many others can say this?

Quote:
For us to understand where we would be without the love of God if he just left us here and left us to our own devices..well just take a look around at this world. We need God,we need his love,we need his goodness but because we are human and live in the here and now in a physical world we have come to believe that we are living and making decisions on our own apart from God.
This is what Jesus did. He set the Way, and has shown us the Father's Love. He restored that which was broken. But we are still left up to our own devices. This is why evil still exists.

Take a look at Ghandi. This man was Christ-like to the extreme. His whole journey centered on the freedoms of man, and his oneness with God. Looking at his life, the only part of his Truth journey missing was the Blood of Christ. I often wonder why it is he never saw it, though he often heard of it. I know I would take just a small measure of his faith. Standing up to armed oppression with only his cheek exposed, wow. He took down a empire, in a country with 300 million in it. They ALL fasted and prayed one single day.

I think God sends us people who have this faith, to give a glimpes on how man is supposed to live. All from different faiths, and walks of life. If we would only learn from each other, instead of trying to tear each other down, or prove how "right" we are.

God is the God of everyone, not just Americans, or Jews, or Muslims, or Hindus, or Christians, or Black, or White, or ______(fill it in again). Though most don't Truly know Him, they will soon enough. Life is but a vapor, and then poof,,it's gone. Our journey lies in what drives us most. Is it our Love for one another, and God? Is it on how many "toys" we can get before we pass? Is it leaving something for our children?

Sometimes the Truth seems so clear, and other times it seems so far off. Only God can give us Truth.

"Even if you are the minority of just one, the Truth is still the Truth."-Ghandi

"Truth is only relevant to those seeking it,,otherwise it is easy to believe the lie,as one cannot tell the difference, nor even care to."-HotnAz
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Old 11-07-2008, 03:27 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
10,167 posts, read 18,145,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyliner View Post
Then why believe anything? Why not give in to the urge to lie, cheat, steal, murder, verbally tear down others, and just literally act out everything you feel like doing, without regard for anyone or anything else? If there is nothing but oblivion, then there is no basis for moral law, and thus no moral reason to restrain your emotions in any case. We are all dying anyway, right?


What restrains us is the law and fear of retribution from men, not fear of retribution from God. Though I certainly admit the fear of God is a socially useful tool.
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Old 11-07-2008, 04:42 PM
 
Location: yeah
5,716 posts, read 14,233,503 times
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If it's all about Jesus Christ, why do people live by the Bible which was not written by him at all (except some quotations in the gospels)?
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Old 11-07-2008, 04:48 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,374,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
If it's all about Jesus Christ, why do people live by the Bible which was not written by him at all (except some quotations in the gospels)?
Most of the bible was written by the Jewish people, for Jewish people. We have the luxury of picking out the parts we like, and discarding the rest.

That was a joke BTW.

Seriously, if people just took what Jesus said alone, and lived by those basic tenants, ALL of the globe would be saved, and FREE! Can you imagine? A world WITHOUT religion!
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Old 11-07-2008, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Oxford, OH
1,461 posts, read 3,215,209 times
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Good post. Most of us who have trusted Christ to have died on the cross for our sins try our best to live as we feel God would want us to. Using our gifts and talents, loving others, sharing our faith, enjoying a church family and growing in our faith.
But it really comes down to Christ alone, faith in what he has done for us. Everything else is a side issue. We really have nothing to do with our salvation. If we did it would be less than perfect for sure. God is not a God of fear for believers...we worry did we do enough, give enough, were we always submissive to God, etc. We do the best we can, repent, start over, pray, read the word, and grow in this journey of life. God knows we are but dust. But I'm thankful that he loves us and has an eternity set up where we can worship him in spirit and truth.
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Old 11-07-2008, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,454,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
If God exists and is perfect all will be saved and His threats to damn us are a bluff. On the other hand if God is imperfect and capricious and vindictive you can't trust what He says anyway.

And then maybe there's no God, no salvation, nothing. Just oblivion.
And you are willing to take that chance? With your eternal soul? Because you do have one you know. It's just a matter of where it will end up that's in question. Willing to risk it? Cause you did say maybe, a sure sign of not being positive. So are you?
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