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Old 11-07-2008, 10:36 AM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,375,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
Logic,

Thank you for your best educated guess based on the evidence while rejecting the account of the ones who where there as eye-witness to the events.
Genesis is an eye-witness account? Uh, who wrote it? Adam? Eve? the snake?
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Old 11-07-2008, 10:37 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,552,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
How could God know something in advance if he is waiting to see what decision we will make. If our decision hasn`t been made then God has to wait and see what we will do before he acts accordingly.
Forknowledge is a concept that's waaaaay out of our comprehensive league. Jesus was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
yep...it`s called the church!
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Old 11-07-2008, 10:38 AM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,375,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
How could God know something in advance if he is waiting to see what decision we will make. If our decision hasn`t been made then God has to wait and see what we will do before he acts accordingly. God has a plan and we are acting out that plan according to his will. I know you will not agree with that because that isn`t what the church teaches. But I just mention it for others who have wondered the same thing and haven`t been indoctrinated with church teaching or perhaps someone who God is calling out of the wordly church system.
Supposedly God is omniscient, which means he knows all regardless of time. And you contradict yourself, saying that God doesn't know what will happen and then saying that everything we do is according to his plan.
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Old 11-07-2008, 11:18 AM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,771,609 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Supposedly God is omniscient, which means he knows all regardless of time. And you contradict yourself, saying that God doesn't know what will happen and then saying that everything we do is according to his plan.
No contradiction because I never said God doesn`t know what will happen. On the contrary,he knows because he planned it. The future hasn`t happened yet but God planned the future. Did God know what would happen when he made satan? If he did then why would he make him knowing the overwhelming majority of his creation would be burning in an endless torture chamber? Which is what the church believes. I believe he made satan and evil for a purpose. Which will culminate in goodness in the end.
You don`t have total free will. God has already planned what is going to happen..that`s why he knows. He`s not waiting for you to make a free will decision. If God wants you to do something..trust me you will do it. If he wants you to go to a certain place..trust me you will go there.He is not waiting to see if you decide to go there or not. He wants you there, he will put you there. This is his creation. He is the potter you are just the clay.
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Old 11-07-2008, 11:21 AM
 
2,790 posts, read 5,575,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
The bible says:

Genesis 3:16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

Basically, Genesis 2-3 says among other things: God placed the evil tree in Eden, and told Adam and Eve not to eat its fruit. Then he put a snake there to tell Eve to eat the fruit. Then, he used it as an excuse to punish Adam and Eve. Because the woman followed the snake and ate the apple, giving birth is one of the most excruciating events in most women's lives.
Sounds like entrapment to me.
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Old 11-07-2008, 11:25 AM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,375,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
No contradiction because I never said God doesn`t know what will happen. On the contrary,he knows because he planned it. The future hasn`t happened yet but God planned the future. Did God know what would happen when he made satan? If he did then why would he make him knowing the overwhelming majority of his creation would be burning in an endless torture chamber? Which is what the church believes. I believe he made satan and evil for a purpose. Which will culminate in goodness in the end.
You don`t have total free will. God has already planned what is going to happen..that`s why he knows. He`s not waiting for you to make a free will decision. If God wants you to do something..trust me you will do it. If he wants you to go to a certain place..trust me you will go there.He is not waiting to see if you decide to go there or not. He wants you there, he will put you there. This is his creation. He is the potter you are just the clay.
Which means it was God's will for Adam and Eve to eat the apple (or whatever you want to call it), if the story is to be taken literally. "If God wants you to do something, you will do it."
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Old 11-07-2008, 11:29 AM
 
Location: In the North Idaho woods, still surrounded by terriers
2,178 posts, read 6,151,713 times
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That never-ending nonsense about God being all knowing and yet giving us free will just drives me nuts. It can't be both ways.

I think is was a persimmon.
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Old 11-07-2008, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 7,865,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
Logic,

Thank you for your best educated guess based on the evidence while rejecting the account of the ones who where there as eye-witness to the events.
<snipped for brevity>
So, it shows us that sin causes pain. Sin is rejecting God and doing what you think is best.
Okay, so...if that's true then any woman who is not a Christian should suffer MORE pain in childbirth than the women of Christianity, right?

Funny how as an atheist I had both of my kids through natural childbirth and used no painkillers of any kind, including no epidural, and walked out of the hospital both times a mere couple hours after giving birth.

And guess what, yeah it hurts...but not enough that I wanted painkillers. So explain why a "sinful" atheist like me has a much higher pain tolerance than most other women I know, who by the by are generally Christians?
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Old 11-07-2008, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Swamps of Florida
3,412 posts, read 9,027,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marianinark View Post
In the first place..It was not an apple!

It was "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil".
What difference does it make, apple or banana? The point is the same.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:17 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,552,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepsMom View Post
What difference does it make, apple or banana? The point is the same.
But the point gets missed; the awareness we have of these issues - whether it be skepticism or sneakers - is "right and wrong" only become an issue when we leave the all - encompassing realm of the Spirit.

In Him, there is no male or female, no day or night, no need for a speed limit sign - all these "laws" we have in our conscious are there because of the "knowledge" we "gained" that day in the Garden.
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