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Genesis 3:16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
Basically, Genesis 2-3 says among other things: God placed the evil tree in Eden, and told Adam and Eve not to eat its fruit. Then he put a snake there to tell Eve to eat the fruit. Then, he used it as an excuse to punish Adam and Eve. Because the woman followed the snake and ate the apple, giving birth is one of the most excruciating events in most women's lives.
This is a story to explain why giving birth is painful. Here is another explanation:
One of the main differences between humans and other apes is our huge heads, developed because of our quickly evolved brain (a few million years is very quick in evolutionary terms). Australopithecus afarensis lived 3-4 million years ago. Its brain size was 450 cc. Today, humans have an average brain size of 1350cc. Now apply this size difference to a newborn's head pushing through the birth canal. A list of these and other fossils are on this website.
Another unique trait about humans is bipedalism (walking on two legs). As the environment forced our ancestors to walk great distances, natural selection caused the pelvis to shrink, better enabling bipedalism. Info found here.
So one story is that God punished Eve for doing what he knew she would do, given the way he set up the situation.
The other story is that the environment changed, and forced natural selection to slowly increase brain size and decrease pelvis size, because that was more important for survival and reproduction than limiting the excruciating pain. The species continues if the woman dies. Evolution has no intelligence or compassion. It finds a solution, not the best solution.
So you can choose to believe what people, who knew nothing of science, wrote thousands of years ago explaining why they thought childbirth was painful, or you can look at the evidence and say that evolution is our best educated guess, based on the mounds of evidence, at least until we find enough evidence to form a better theory (if there is one). And you can still be Christian.
What if Adam and Eve never ate from the forbidden tree and childbirth, as we know it, would have been painless?
What if folks could understand that simply because God has foreknowledge of an event that doesn't negate the person responsible for making the choice in the first place? As in the Garden, Adam and Eve knew they had a choice ... obey God or disobey God. Simply because God had foreknowledge of which way they would choose did not remove control of the choice from Adam and Eve. And just because God knew in advance which choice they would make does not mean consequences were not warranted. Adam and Eve knew there would be consequences for disobedience ... just like any child knows if they disobey their parents they get in trouble. Because God (the parent) knew what would happen, the punishment should not be given?
As I've said before, people do believe evolution as well as the bible ... but in so doing, they elevate man's words over the authority of God's words. Sound familiar?
I don't think that evolution and creationism are contradictory (I'm also not completely clear on what you're arguing). You can make the argument that God, in His infinite wisdom, foresaw that humans would need very large brains later on and it would be more beneficial to walk upright, so He gave Eve a punishment that would probably happen naturally, though may have hurt more because He enabled it to.
If anything, the findings of evolution leave me in awe of His power, foresight and thoughtfulness.
Genesis 3:16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
Basically, Genesis 2-3 says among other things: God placed the evil tree in Eden, and told Adam and Eve not to eat its fruit. Then he put a snake there to tell Eve to eat the fruit. Then, he used it as an excuse to punish Adam and Eve. Because the woman followed the snake and ate the apple, giving birth is one of the most excruciating events in most women's lives.
This is a story to explain why giving birth is painful. Here is another explanation:
One of the main differences between humans and other apes is our huge heads, developed because of our quickly evolved brain (a few million years is very quick in evolutionary terms). Australopithecus afarensis lived 3-4 million years ago. Its brain size was 450 cc. Today, humans have an average brain size of 1350cc. Now apply this size difference to a newborn's head pushing through the birth canal. A list of these and other fossils are on this website.
Another unique trait about humans is bipedalism (walking on two legs). As the environment forced our ancestors to walk great distances, natural selection caused the pelvis to shrink, better enabling bipedalism. Info found here.
So one story is that God punished Eve for doing what he knew she would do, given the way he set up the situation.
The other story is that the environment changed, and forced natural selection to slowly increase brain size and decrease pelvis size, because that was more important for survival and reproduction than limiting the excruciating pain. The species continues if the woman dies. Evolution has no intelligence or compassion. It finds a solution, not the best solution.
So you can choose to believe what people, who knew nothing of science, wrote thousands of years ago explaining why they thought childbirth was painful, or you can look at the evidence and say that evolution is our best educated guess, based on the mounds of evidence, at least until we find enough evidence to form a better theory (if there is one). And you can still be Christian.
What do you think?
Hi LogicIsYourFriend;,
That is an interesting image that women suffer in childbirth as a side effect to our knowledge. Man also did not leave the garden or know their nakedness until they had knowledge. All of these things went together with leaving the tropics. This seems to have happened very quickly.
If Eve didn't eat the apple, women everywhere now would have no pain during the child birth, they'd be happily running around naked, dropping kids everywhere and having lots of fun.
Thank you for your best educated guess based on the evidence while rejecting the account of the ones who where there as eye-witness to the events.
Also, Adam was cursed:
Gen. 3:17: And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18:Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19:In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
So, it shows us that sin causes pain. Sin is rejecting God and doing what you think is best.
What if folks could understand that simply because God has foreknowledge of an event that doesn't negate the person responsible for making the choice in the first place? As in the Garden, Adam and Eve knew they had a choice ... obey God or disobey God. Simply because God had foreknowledge of which way they would choose did not remove control of the choice from Adam and Eve. And just because God knew in advance which choice they would make does not mean consequences were not warranted.
How could God know something in advance if he is waiting to see what decision we will make. If our decision hasn`t been made then God has to wait and see what we will do before he acts accordingly. God has a plan and we are acting out that plan according to his will. I know you will not agree with that because that isn`t what the church teaches. But I just mention it for others who have wondered the same thing and haven`t been indoctrinated with church teaching or perhaps someone who God is calling out of the wordly church system.
Quote:
they elevate man's words over the authority of God's words. Sound familiar?
If Eve didn't eat the apple, women everywhere now would have no pain during the child birth, they'd be happily running around naked, dropping kids everywhere and having lots of fun.
Wonderful!
In the first place..It was not an apple!
It was "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil".
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