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Old 10-28-2010, 12:08 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,202,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Lol. You sound like a psychiatrist. How would I feel if Jesus was God? Terribly confused. Like I am right now. I thought that's what the debate was about.......

John 1:1. In the beginning was the God and the God was with the God and the God was God.

Maybe it's time for bed. I seem to have ruffled a few feathers in my "Define Cult" thread, and I probably need another break from these boards. Oh, well. I'll be back. Truly sorry to any and all who are cranky with me right now. My apologies.


LOL ...

I am an avid student of Psychology as well as world religion ...

But the point is, if the spirit bares witness to our hearts of the truth, then we must search our hearts and listen to our consciences in order to discover the truth. The truth does not always make sense to our limited human minds ... Some times we have to put things on a shelf until God reveals to us the reason for it.

The fact is this is a paradoxical topic ... A person really has to think outside the box to make any sense of certain extreme abstractions, and that can take a long time and lots of study to learn how to do ... It is rocket science, of a sort, nay more than that, a sort of quantum mechanics(astral physics?).

But it is a valid question ... How does the idea that Christ is God make you feel in your heart, even if it causes some confusion in your mind right now? I think you already answered the question from your heart by saying you agree that Jesus is the right being for the job ...

Just think about it(as you are obviously already doing), and get some rest my friend. Good night and God bless ...
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Old 10-28-2010, 12:17 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,202,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattClyde View Post
That he is the most awesome ninja ever, and he knows super karate.
ROTFLMAO !!!


Touche ...
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Old 10-28-2010, 12:52 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,382,552 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
LOL ...

I am an avid student of Psychology as well as world religion ...

But the point is, if the spirit bares witness to our hearts of the truth, then we must search our hearts and listen to our consciences in order to discover the truth. The truth does not always make sense to our limited human minds ... Some times we have to put things on a shelf until God reveals to us the reason for it.

The fact is this is a paradoxical topic ... A person really has to think outside the box to make any sense of certain extreme abstractions, and that can take a long time and lots of study to learn how to do ... It is rocket science, of a sort, nay more than that, a sort of quantum mechanics(astral physics?).

But it is a valid question ... How does the idea that Christ is God make you feel in your heart, even if it causes some confusion in your mind right now? I think you already answered the question from your heart by saying you agree that Jesus is the right being for the job ...

Just think about it(as you are obviously already doing), and get some rest my friend. Good night and God bless ...
Thanks, Ironmaw. Good night and God bless you as well.
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:57 PM
 
17,770 posts, read 8,888,287 times
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In the beginning the Word was within God.

Revelation 3:20
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock, if anyone hears my voice and opens the door; I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with me."

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word; and My Father will love him."
And, "we will come to him; making our abode within him."

1 John 2:24
As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

Revelation 21:3
And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle (dwelling place) of God is within men, and He will dwell within them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be within them.

Modalism is an interesting concept therefore, I have a question:

If Jesus is the God of the Old Testament, and of the New Testament, would that relate to the crucifixion?
Considering that cruel and unusual punishment inflicted upon humanity deserve righteous judgment, that which must be borne or suffered for the wages of sin is death.
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:27 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,202,500 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
In the beginning the Word was within God.

Revelation 3:20
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock, if anyone hears my voice and opens the door; I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with me."

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word; and My Father will love him."
And, "we will come to him; making our abode within him."

1 John 2:24
As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

Revelation 21:3
And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle (dwelling place) of God is within men, and He will dwell within them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be within them.

Modalism is an interesting concept therefore, I have a question:

If Jesus is the God of the Old Testament, and of the New Testament, would that relate to the crucifixion?
Considering that cruel and unusual punishment inflicted upon humanity deserve righteous judgment, that which must be borne or suffered for the wages of sin is death.

Yes of course ... God became a man, and did what no natural man could or can do, and then died for all people.

He took the responsibility for his creation on himself. Isn't that the righteous thing to do?
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Old 10-29-2010, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,289,114 times
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herefornow and others,

Your issue is that you are trying to understand the triune being from your own point of view, and are incapable of doing so, ever. We all are incapable of it, however, in that leap of faith and accepting it, The Lord and Holy One of Israel, Jesus Christ, will then begin to reveal His innermost secrets to you, in HIS due time. Not yours.

It is all about your very next step. You ask for the refining fire, yet you won't even take that very leap of faith He asks of you. This isn't a math equation, this is about your life, and the eternal that is. This is a very important gift that is NOT given for nothing in return. You have to act. You have to take part in that belief, and the very core of the Christian faith is HIS TRIUNE NATURE. This is the center of our spirit....by the Holy Spirit, through Christ, He is all in all.
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Old 10-29-2010, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,382,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
herefornow and others,

Your issue is that you are trying to understand the triune being from your own point of view, and are incapable of doing so, ever. We all are incapable of it, however, in that leap of faith and accepting it, The Lord and Holy One of Israel, Jesus Christ, will then begin to reveal His innermost secrets to you, in HIS due time. Not yours.

It is all about your very next step. You ask for the refining fire, yet you won't even take that very leap of faith He asks of you. This isn't a math equation, this is about your life, and the eternal that is. This is a very important gift that is NOT given for nothing in return. You have to act. You have to take part in that belief, and the very core of the Christian faith is HIS TRIUNE NATURE. This is the center of our spirit....by the Holy Spirit, through Christ, He is all in all.
I have to pop in here for a sec.

I believe that Jesus was a man, whom the Spirit of God fully rested on at his baptism(Matthew 3:16), just like scripture says. I believe all of what we see was created by him and for him (Colossians 1:16). I believe violent men crucified him because a guy like him, who grew up Jewish, was working on the Sabbath, breaking all the rules, and pissing all the religious off. They hated him, as they thought of themselves as the perfect race, basically, and they were waiting for God to send them a messiah who would take revenge on all the heathen and wipe everybody out so they could rule the world (we have people like that today~~A lot of Jonah's).

He was the son of God, perfect spiritual firstborn of the human race (Colossians 1:15), and he will one day reconcile the universe and give it all back his Father (I Corinthians 15:24), just as scripture says.

I believe there are parts of scripture which do, indeed, contradict other scripture, causing mass confusion (which is not of God) because the scriptures were translated with pagan ideas still fresh in men's minds, and these pagan ideas are still fairly easy to see all over the world: Jesus with his sun halo (many religions around the world have halo's coming from those they worship), mythological underworlds, Christian Sunday worship, trinity, mother Mary, Peter (pater), 12 disciples, 3 wise men (Magi), Mithra coming out of the rock (Catholic Mary coming out of cave), which all come from pagan religions, mostly Zoroastrianism, which is pre-Christian.

People were put to death in the past for not believing in the trinity, which is rather anti-Christ like, if you ask me. I believe that this topic is so confusing that we have to have people like Mike555 write long convoluted posts, which nobody really understands, which is why they end up saying, "Well, God is a mystery, and we can't really understand him." Don't a lot of men write intelligent-sounding books and essays, which nobody really understands? Does this mean it is truth? I think, sometimes, the longer and more convoluted the book or explanation, the more likely it is that somebody is trying to hide behind something. Truly, we need more people to just come out and say that the emperor does not have any clothes on. Jesus came to bring light to those who wanted to understand, not more Babylonian mysteries.

I seriously doubt anybody is going to change my mind on this subject. Again, I have read a lot on this subject, and I don't believe I'm biased, here, as I didn't really believe in much of anything one way or the other when I started studying. I have studied both sides of this debate, and I'm happy to find that, yes, there are Christians who do not agree with the trinity, or at least they question it. I think when we decide to shake hands with creeds, or tell people to sit still in the pews and stifle their questions, we lock the Spirit up and throw away the key. I believe this is how we got the "cults" in Christianity. People were just disgusted at the confusion and pagan nonsense in tradition, and they decided to start studying on their own, but they walked right into a spiritual wall because they put their own (human) prophets ahead of the Spirit of God. There are a lot of things we don't know about right now, obviously, and I think we will all be surprised to find out how much is really going on out there.

In conclusions, I do believe there are pieces of the truth in all denominations and "cults" of Christianity, but I believe the concept of the trinity is just one more piece of Babylonian confusion.


(and, I think we have a replacement for the Pharisees in Christendom)

Last edited by herefornow; 10-29-2010 at 02:44 PM..
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Old 10-29-2010, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,289,114 times
Reputation: 420
herefornow,

Now that wasn't just a second!

Just a piece of advice....faith cannot be a study for people, else it will never be understood, until it is experienced.
I believe there are no errors in the scriptures...only the way one percieves it. FWIW

FYI though....Christ never broke any of God's rules....but I do agree with you...He is a mystery indeed!
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:10 PM
 
Location: US
26,288 posts, read 13,939,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riceweevil View Post
Who do you think the Man was that Jacob wrestled with till dawn?
[Genesis 32:24]
Most Bibles even provide a subtitle of this part of Genesis 32 "Wrestling with God"

Jesus did state that He existed as the I AM before Abraham.[John 8:58]

Moses met the I AM standing in the burning bush.[Exodus 3:14]

You still have to answer the question that Jesus asked the religious leaders about His relationship to David.[Mark 12:35-37]

No one has seen God at any time. [1 John 4 :12 ] Yet Jacob called the Man that he wrestled with God and seen God face to face.[Genesis 32]

The Man that Jacob called God was none other than JESUS HIMSELF.


If you do not recognize Jesus as equal with God, what do you have as an unblemished Lamb sacrifice for your sins?
That could have been metaphorical...Just as the story of Jonah was Metaphorical...
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:22 PM
 
Location: US
26,288 posts, read 13,939,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
One angel, who in two visions, says that he is not to be worshiped; does not mean that no angel allows it.

Angel stood and proclaimed the Word of God to a man. That does not have anything to do with worship.
I've read that the word 'worship' is from old english and meant 'to highly respect'...
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