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Old 10-26-2010, 02:51 AM
 
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this thread is mere nonsense....
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:30 AM
Status: "Trump 2020-Making America Great Again!" (set 5 hours ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
16,287 posts, read 8,849,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Isa 9:6-7 seals the deal quite well.....among others. Would you like to continue?
Yes, it does!
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Florida -
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Default Jesus is God and the Truth is True, whether you accept it or not!

A hundred reasons (not 50 or 1000, but 1000) … now that’s impressive! It also calls to mind the quote in Shakespeare’s Hamlet, “The lady doth protest too much methinks”

So now that you have methodically and exhaustively tip-toed your way across the minefield, you are calling back to others, “follow me, as you can ‘clearly’ see there are no mines!”

Scripture calls us to “rightly divide the Word of truth,” … not spend our time and efforts trying to provide a 100 examples that the Word can be wrongly divided. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and Universalists go to great lengths trying to use the Bible to disprove Biblical truths that are so obvious to everyone else (for example, the deity of Jesus Christ; … God incarnate, the Word made flesh, who clearly and repeatedly declared, “the father and I are one.” ) Like so many of the blind Pharisees, “they strain at a gnat, but swallow a camel.”

I suspect that you are not really seeking God's truth -- and will go right on trying to prove that the ‘wisdom of men is wiser than the truth of God,’ but what are you really trying to ‘prove’ or ‘disprove’? The specious argument that the “trinity” is not explicitly referenced in the Bible is as vain as the argument that “Christians” do not exist, because the explicit term is only used once in the Bible … and that by a non-believer.

Jesus Christ, God the Father and the Holy Spirit are three in one and one in three, equal in power, deity and authority. To argue that Jesus is lesser, “but still your brother” is like ‘tossing a bone to God’
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Old 10-26-2010, 02:45 PM
 
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Jesus as god is an invention from year 325 AD from the first council of nicaea beliving Jesus to be god is idoltary there no bible verses that calls Jesus god he is only called the son of god not god as such he is a human.
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Old 10-26-2010, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,646 posts, read 49,311,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Beekeeper, your OP is 100% wrong, and you know it.
I know no such thing.

I do know that Jesus Christ is the son of God.

That he was born of perfect seed, and led a life as a Jew fully complying with the Jewish laws. He had a ministry of teaching and healing his fellow Jews; trying to turn them away from their false doctrines. He was sacrificed as Our Passover Lamb. God got Christ up from the dead. Our Risen Lord and Savior is even now seated at his Father's right hand and He is the head of the body of Christ.



Quote:
... That's why you are responding like the above.
In truth?



Quote:
... Matthew 1:23 refutes ALL 100 of your arguments against the deity of Christ. One verse, 24 words, & it's over.
Alas no it does not.
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:35 PM
Status: "Trump 2020-Making America Great Again!" (set 5 hours ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
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Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Alas no it does not.
That's a real strong argument you've mustered there!

OK, what is the true meaning of Matt. 1:23?
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:40 PM
Status: "Trump 2020-Making America Great Again!" (set 5 hours ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
Jesus as god is an invention from year 325 AD from the first council of nicaea beliving Jesus to be god is idoltary there no bible verses that calls Jesus god he is only called the son of god not god as such he is a human.
John 1:1, 14
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Old 10-26-2010, 06:00 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,387,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
Jesus as god is an invention from year 325 AD from the first council of nicaea beliving Jesus to be god is idoltary there no bible verses that calls Jesus god he is only called the son of god not god as such he is a human.

The apostles believe and confess that Jesus was God ...


Jhn 20:28
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"


Jesus sure had the opportunity to correct Thomas for worshiping him as his God right then and there, yet he did not, instead he told Thomas that those who believe that Jesus is lord and God without having seen Christ resurrected were blessed.

If Thomas was committing Idolatry by worshiping Jesus as God at that time, Jesus certainly did nothing to dissuade it.

The fact is, if Thomas confessed that Christ was his lord and his God in the upper room, then the idea that Jesus is God was not originally invented in 325 AD. ...
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Old 10-26-2010, 07:17 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,387,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
Jesus as god is an invention from year 325 AD from the first council of nicaea beliving Jesus to be god is idoltary there no bible verses that calls Jesus god he is only called the son of god not god as such he is a human.
And to further refute the claim that the deity of Christ was first invented in the 4th century, we have the writings of the early church fathers concerning the deity of Christ, and his preexistence of the creation, which predate the 4th century. A few examples are given below ...

Quote:
50 AD The Huleatt Manuscript
"She poured it [the perfume] over his [Jesus'] hair when he sat at the table. But, when the disciples saw it, they were indignant. . . . God, aware of this, said to them: 'Why do you trouble this woman? She has done [a beautiful thing for me.] . . . Then one of the Twelve, who was called Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priest and said, 'What will you give me for my work?' [Matt. 26:7-15]" (Huleatt fragments 1-3).


74 AD The Letter of Barnabas

"And further, my brethren, if the Lord [Jesus] endured to suffer for our soul, he being the Lord of all the world, to whom God said at the foundation of the world, 'Let us make man after our image, and after our likeness,' understand how it was that he endured to suffer at the hand of men" (Letter of Barnabas 5)


140 AD Aristides

"[Christians] are they who, above every people of the Earth, have found the truth, for they acknowledge God, the creator and maker of all things, in the only-begotten Son and in the Holy Spirit" (Apology 16).

150 AD Justin Martyr

"The Father of the universe has a Son, who also being the first begotten Word of God, is even God." (Justin Martyr, First Apology, ch 63)

160 AD Mathetes

"[The Father] sent the Word that he might be manifested to the world . . . This is he who was from the beginning, who appeared as if new, and was found old . . . This is he who, being from everlasting, is today called the Son" (Letter to Diognetus 11).


170 AD Tatian the Syrian

"We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man" (Address to the Greeks 21).


(And there are many more quotes concerning the deity of Christ and his preexistence of the creation from early Church fathers which predate the 4th century found is the link below.)

From Early Christian faith on Trinity, deity of Christ, personality of the Holy Spirit
Quote:

Ignatius of Antioch

"Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God" (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

"For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit" (ibid.,18:2).

"[T]o the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God, by the will of him that has willed everything which is" (Letter to the Romans 1 [A.D. 110]).


Melito of Sardis

"It is no way necessary in dealing with persons of intelligence to adduce the actions of Christ after his baptism as proof that his soul and his body, his human nature, were like ours, real and not phantasmal. The activities of Christ after his baptism, and especially his miracles, gave indication and assurance to the world of the deity hidden in his flesh. Being God and likewise perfect man, he gave positive indications of his two natures: of his deity, by the miracles during the three years following after his baptism, of his humanity, in the thirty years which came before his baptism, during which, by reason of his condition according to the flesh, he concealed the signs of his deity, although he was the true God existing before the ages" (Fragment in Anastasius of Sinai’s The Guide 13 [A.D. 177]).


Irenaeus

"For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, Father Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth and sea and all that is in them; and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who announced through the prophets the dispensations and the comings, and the birth from a Virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the bodily ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus our Lord, and his coming from heaven in the glory of the Father to reestablish all things; and the raising up again of all flesh of all humanity, in order that to Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior and King, in accord with the approval of the invisible Father, every knee shall bend of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth . . . " (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).

"Nevertheless, what cannot be said of anyone else who ever lived, that he is himself in his own right God and Lord . . . may be seen by all who have attained to even a small portion of the truth" (ibid., 3:19:1).



From The Divinity of Christ
Peace ...

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-26-2010 at 07:27 PM..
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Old 10-26-2010, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,483,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
And to further refute the claim that the deity of Christ was first invented in the 4th century, we have the writings of the early church fathers concerning the deity of Christ, and his preexistence of the creation, which predate the 4th century. A few examples are given below ...

Peace ...

I don't disagree with you often, Ironmaw, but in this case I do. I've read all I can on the trinity, and I've scoured Christian websites trying to figure this out, but they always come up way too short, in my opinion. I believe Jesus was a man who was sent to show us the love of his father, which he did, brilliantly! When people cried, "my lord and my God," it was because they saw their father in action. God is spirit, and when his spirit rested on Christ, perfectly, people were overjoyed, and I love him more and more everyday! If he really existed, and if there really is an afterlife, I can't wait to meet him.

But, the church was so steeped in paganism, within years of the disciples death, that I just don't believe the trinity to be a Christian doctrine. I believe God's spirit rested on Jesus (he did not have the Holy Spirit until after he was baptized. That should tell us something). I think the trinity slipped in just like the mythological underworlds and the mother/son worship. I believe, just like the hell/grave issue, that there are far too many verses that overpower the ones that lean toward a trinity. God is not the author of confusion, and the trinity is beyond confusing. I'm not one to put up a fight, usually, but this is something I'm passionate about, and I will continue to study and do research, though I'm fairly certain the trinity is just another pagan doctrine.

I don't agree with all that is said in the below links, but I thought I'd throw them out there for discussion.

(Wow! Do the pagans ever love their trinity! And I don't think the reformation did much reforming)

The Pagan Trinity, and Saint Brigit....Photo Twelve

Worshipping Jesus and theTrinitarian Argument

Roman mythology

Egyptian Trinity

PAGAN INFLUENCE UPON THE TRINITY

Nicene Creed and the Truth about the Trinity

Hindu Trinity~~~

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