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Old 11-02-2013, 12:00 AM
 
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To try and understand the trinity of God using our human references will lead to seemingly illogical situations. There are clear statements in the Bible of the God the Father and God the Son (Jesus) being the same being (see driftwoodpoint's list as a start above), and there are clear statements of the individual nature/persons of God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit. With God being a "higher" being than humans (more powerful, more intelligent, more loving etc), we cannot claim to fully understand God triune as revealed in the Bible. All we need to do is to believe the whole Bible, and not selective choose the parts that seem to fit with our own idea of how God should be, or should not be.

Submariner, you only quoted Bible verses showing the distinct nature of Jesus and not the many verses claiming that Jesus is God.

Do you know that Jesus claimed to be Jahwe (Jahwe "I am" in English", which so called Jehova witnesses pronounce as Jehova)? Yes, Jesus claimed to be God himself in many places and in many ways in the Bible:

In Exodus 3 Moses encountered God in the burning bush. God told Moses that he is the one He has chosen to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me 'What is His name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God replies to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God has said that His own name, His personal name, is "I AM." ["I am" is in Hewbrew "Jahwe" or as some pronounce it: "Jehova"]
In John 8:56-58 Jesus claims that it was he (Jesus) that spoke to Abraham from the bush: "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing My day; he saw it and was glad." "You are not yet 50 years old," they said to Him, "and you have seen Abraham?" "I tell you the truth," Jesus announced, "before Abraham was, I AM!" Jesus was the great I AM from before the beginning of time; He existed before Abraham ever was. He is claiming here to be the I AM of the Old Testament. Verse 59 says the Jews picked up stones to stone Him, but the Lord Jesus slipped away. The reason they wanted to stone Him was because stoning was the death penalty for blasphemy. He was claiming to be Yahweh--Jehovah--Almighty God--I AM. (Of course, it wasn't blasphemy when Christ claimed to be who He truly was!)

Furthermore John 8:24. "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I AM, you will indeed die in your sins." In your Bible, it may read "if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be...." The extra words are supplied by the editors; they're not in the original text. If you're familiar with Exodus 3 you don't need the extra words for it to make grammatical sense. The Lord Jesus is again claiming to be God.

Also in John 18:4. In the Garden of Gethsemane, Judas and some priests and soldiers are about to take Jesus prisoner. "Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to Him, went out and asked them, 'Who is it that you want?' 'Jesus of Nazareth,' they replied. 'I AM,' Jesus said. When He said, 'I AM,' they drew back and fell to the ground." (Again, in your Bible the editors may have supplied "I am [he]" to make it grammatically correct. The Greek just says, "I AM.")

The force of Jesus' claim to be Yahweh (I AM) was so powerful that it literally knocked the arresting officers and the Jewish priests off their feet!

Submariner, you have to take ALL information in the Bible into account before selectively quoting verses. Even if you quote a 1000 verses but only one side of it, you cannot claim to have a true presentation.
You may be tempted to accuse me of the same here, so in advance let me say that I don't deny the individual persons of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. However, the Bible is clear that they are all different persons of the one, single all-mighty God! Three in One. Our human brains struggle with this concept, but that is what the Bibles teaches.
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
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Originally Posted by JJ43211 View Post
...
Submariner, you only quoted Bible verses showing the distinct nature of Jesus and not the many verses claiming that Jesus is God.
Yet, you have no passages where Jesus claimed to be God.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
In what sense could this name Immanuel be applied to Jesus Christ, if he be not truly and properly GOD? Could the Spirit of truth ever design that Christians should receive him as an angel or a mere man, and yet, in the very beginning of the Gospel history, apply a character to him which belongs only to the most high God? Surely no. In what sense, then, is Christ GOD WITH US? Jesus is called Immanuel, or God with us, in his incarnation.-God united to our nature-God with man-God in man.-God with us, by his continual protection.-God with us, by the influences of his Holy Spirit-in the holy sacrament-in the preaching of his word-in private prayer. And God with us, through every action of our life, that we begin, continue, and end in his name. He is God with us, to comfort, enlighten, protect, and defend us in every time of temptation and trial, in the hour of death, in the day of judgment; and God with us, and in us, and we with and in him, to all eternity.

Matthew - Chapter 1 - Adam Clarke Commentary on StudyLight.org

There is one man in the OT called Emmanuel also...
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Isa 9:6-7 seals the deal quite well.....among others. Would you like to continue?

No it does not...
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
The apostles believe and confess that Jesus was God ...


Jhn 20:28
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"


Jesus sure had the opportunity to correct Thomas for worshiping him as his God right then and there, yet he did not, instead he told Thomas that those who believe that Jesus is lord and God without having seen Christ resurrected were blessed.

If Thomas was committing Idolatry by worshiping Jesus as God at that time, Jesus certainly did nothing to dissuade it.

The fact is, if Thomas confessed that Christ was his lord and his God in the upper room, then the idea that Jesus is God was not originally invented in 325 AD. ...

My Lord and my Judge...
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:37 AM
 
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Good post, thank you for sharing.

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Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
1. Because Jesus Christ is represented by the sacred writers to be as distinct a being from God the Father as one man is distinct from another. “It is written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one who bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me,” John 8:17, 18.

2. Because he not only never said that himself was God, but, on the contrary, spoke of the Father, who sent him, as God, and as the only God. “This is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent,” John 17:3. This language our Saviour used in solemn prayer to “his Father and our Father.”

3. Because he is declared, in unnumbered instances, to be the Son of God. “And lo, a voice from heaven, saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased,” Matt 3:17. Can a son be coeval (the same age) and the same with his father?

4. Because he is styled the Christ, or the anointed of God. “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power,” Acts 10:38. Is he who anoints the same with him who is anointed?

5. Because he is represented as a Priest. “Consider the ….High-Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus,” Heb. 3:1. The office of a priest is to minister to God. Christ, then, as a priest, cannot be God.

6. Because Christ is Mediator between the “One God,” and “men.” “For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,” 1 Tim. 2:5.

7. Because, as the Saviour of men, he was sent by the Father. “And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 1 John 4:14.

8. Because he is an Apostle appointed by God. “Consider the Apostle,...Christ Jesus, who was faithful to him that appointed him,” Heb. 3:1, 2.

9. Because Christ is represented as our intercessor with God. “It is Christ that died, yea, rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us,” Rom. 8:34.

10. Because the head of Christ is God. “I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of every woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God,” 1 Cor. 11:3.

11. Because, in the same sense in which we are said to belong to Christ, Christ is said to belong to God. “And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s,” 1 Cor. 3:23.

12. Because Christ says, “My father is greater than all,” John 10:29. Is not the father, then greater than the son?

13. Because he affirms, in another connection, and without the least qualification, “My Father is greater than I,” John 14:28

14. Because he virtually denies that he is God, when he exclaims, “Why callest thou me Good? There is none good but one, that is God,” Matt 19:17.

15. Because our Saviour, after having said, “I and my Father are one,” gives his disciples distinctly to understand that he did not mean one substance, equal in power and glory, but one only in affection and design, as clearly appears from the prayer he offers to his Father in their behalf, --“that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us,” John 17:21

16. Because the Father is called the God of Christ as he is the God of Christians. “Jesus saith unto her, ….Go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father; and to my God and your God,” John 20:17.

17. Because an Apostle says of God, in distinction from the “Lord Jesus Christ,” that He is the “only Potentate,” and that He “only hath immortality,” 1 Tim. 6:15, 16.

18. Because it is the express declaration of the same Apostle, that the Father is the one God, and there is none other. “Though there be that are called Gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) yet to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things,” 1 Cor. 8:5- 6.

19. Because the power which Christ possessed was, as him affirmed, given to him. “All power is given unto me,” Matt 28:18.

20. Because he positively denies himself to be the author of his miraculous works, but refers them to the Father, or the holy spirit of God. “The Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works,” John 14:10. “If I cast out devils by the spirit of God,” Matt. 12:28.

21. Because he distinctly states, that these works bear witness, not to his own power, but that the Father had sent him, John 5:36.

22. Because he expressly affirms that the works were done, not in his own, but in his Father’s name, John 10:25.

23. Because he asserts, that “him hath God the Father sealed,” i.e. to God the Father he was indebted for his credentials, John 6:27.

24. Because he declares that he is not the author of his own doctrine. “My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me,” John 7:16, 17.

25. Because he represents himself as having been instructed by the Father. “As my Father hath taught me, I speak these things,” John 8:28.

26. Because he refers invariable to the Father as the origin of the authority by which he spoke and acted. “The Father hath given to the Son authority,” John 5:26, 27.

27. Because he acknowledges his dependence on his Heavenly Father for example and direction in all his doings. “The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do,” John 5:19. “The Father loveth the Son, and showth him all things that himself doeth” John 5:20.

28. Because he says “I seek not mine own glory; but I honor my Father,” John 8:49, 50.

29. Because he declares, “If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father that honoreth me,” John 8:54.

30. Because an Apostle declares, that Christ dwelt all fullness, because it so pleased the Father, Col. 1:19.

31. Because Christ is uniformly represented in the Scriptures, not as the primary, but the intermediate, cause of all things relating to our salvation. “One God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him,” 1 Cor. 8:6.

32. Because he declares, “I am not come of myself” into the world, “for I proceeded forth and came from God,” John 8:42; 7:28. Jesus knowing… that he came from God, and went to God,” John 13:3.

33. Because he affirms that he had not the disposal of the highest places in his own kingdom. “To sit on my right and on my left is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father,” Matt. 20:23.

34. Because our Saviour, referring his disciples to a future time, when they would understand more accurately concerning him, expressly declares that then they would know him to be entirely dependent upon the Father. “When ye have lifted up the Son of man (i.e. crucified him), then shall ye know that I am he (i.e. the Messiah), and that I do nothing of myself, but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things," John 8:28.

35. Because our Saviour always professed to have no will of his own, but to be ever entirely guided and governed by the will of his Heavenly Father. “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.” John 6:38.

36. Because he expressly denies that he is possessed of Divine attribute of independent existence. “As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father,” John 6:57

37. Because he expressly disclaims the possession of the Divine attribute of underived existence. “As the Father hath life in himself, so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself,” John 5:26.

38. Because he positively denies that he is possessed of the Divine attribute of omnipotence. “I can of mine own self do nothing,” John 5:30.

39. Because he expressly disclaims the possession of the Divine attribute of omniscience. “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but my Father only,” Matt.24:36, Mark 13:32.

40. Because Christ is said in the Scriptures to have been “tempted of the devil,” Matt. 4:1. But “God can not be tempted with evil.” James 1:13.

41. Because it is related of our Saviour, that “he continued all night in prayer to God,” Luke 6:12. Why should Christ thus pray, if he himself were God?

42. Because, in presence of a numerous company before the resurrection, he gave thanks to the Father for having heard him. “Father, I thank thee that thou has heard me, and I knew that thou hearest me always,” John 11:41, 42.

43. Because Jesus besought his Father to glorify him. “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thyself with the glory which I had with thee before the world was,” John 17:5. The one who prayed to God to glorify him, cannot be God.

44. Because he implored that, if it were possible, the bitter cup might pass from him, adding, “Nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt,” Matt 26:39.

45. Because he said, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” Matt. 27:46 Can he who uttered this be the Supreme God?

46. Because he never paid his adoration to himself, the Son, nor to the Holy Ghost, as he should have done, had the Son and the Holy Ghost been God; but always to the Father.

47. Because he never instructed his disciples to worship himself or the Holy Ghost, but the Father, and the Father only. “When ye pray, say Our Father which art in heaven,” Luke 11:2. “In that day, ye shall ask me nothing. Whatsoever ye ask of the Father in my name,” John 16:23. “The hour cometh and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him,” John 4:23.

48. Because it was not the practice of the Apostles to pay religious homage to Christ, but to God the Father through Christ. “I thank God through Jesus Christ,” Rom. 7:25. “To God only wise, be glory through Christ,” Rom 16:27. “I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,” Eph. 3:14.

49. Because St. Peter, immediately after being filled with the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, thus addressed the Jews: “Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles, and wonders, and signs which God did by him, in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain; whom God hath raised up,” Acts 2:22-24.

50. Because St. Paul expressly states, that “all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,” 2 Cor. 5:18.

51. Because the same Apostle gives “thanks to God, who giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ,” 1 Cor.15:57.

52. Because it is said that it is “to the glory of God the Father,” that “every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is the Lord,” Phil. 2:11.

53. Because the Scriptures affirm that “Christ glorified not himself to be made a high priest, but He (glorified him) who said unto him, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee,” Heb. 5:5.

54. Because it is expressly asserted that God gave to Christ the Revelation which was made to the author of the Apocalypse, Rev. 1:1.

55. Because an Apostle speaks of Christ, only as the image of God. “Who is the image of the image of the invisible God,” Col. 1:15. 2 Cor. 4: 4. It would be absurd to call anyone his own image.

56. Because Christ is stated to be “the first-born of every creature,” Col. 1:15.

57. Because he is said to be “the beginning of the creation of God,” Rev. 3: 14.

58. Because the Scriptures affirm, in so many words, that “Jesus was made a little lower than the angels,” Heb. 2:9. Can God become lower than his creatures?

59. Because Peter declares that “Christ received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, this is my beloved son,” 2 Peter 1:17.

60. Because it is represented as necessary that the Saviour of mankind should “be made like unto his brethren,” Heb. 2:17.

61. Because, in the Epistle to the Hebrews, Christ is compared with Moses in a manner that would be impious if he were the Supreme God. “For this man (Christ) was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch,” Heb. 3:3.

62. Because he is represented as being the servant, the chosen, the beloved of God, and the recipient of God’s spirit. “Behold, my servant, whom I have chosen, in whom my soul is well pleased; I will put my spirit upon him,” Matt. 12:18.

63. Because he himself expressly declares that it was in consequence of his doing what pleased the Father, that the Father was with him and did not leave him alone. “He that sent me is with me; the Father hath not left me alone, for I do always those things that please him,” John 8:29.

64. Because he is said to have “increased in wisdom, and in favor with God and man,” Luke 2:52.

65. Because he speaks of himself as one who had received commands from the Father. “The Father, who sent me, he gave me a commandment,” John 12:49.

66. Because he is represented as obeying the Father, and as having been “obedient unto death,” Phil. 2:8. “Even as the Father said unto me, so I speak,” John 12:50. “I have kept my Father’s commandments,” John 15:10.

67. Because Christ “Learned obedience by the things he suffered,” and through sufferings was made perfect by God, Heb. 5:8.

68. Because he is spoken of in the Scriptures as the first born among many brethren. Rom. 8:29. Has God brethren?

69. Because Christ calls everyone who obeys God his brother. “Whosoever shall do the will of my Father in heaven, the same is my brother,” Matt. 12:50.

70. Because he offers to the faithful the like distinction and honor that himself has with the Father. “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am sit down with my Father in his throne,” Rev. 3: 21.

71. Because God, in the later ages, hath spoken by his Son, and appointed him heir of all things, Heb. 1:2.

72. Because Christ is styled the first-begotten of the dead, Rev. 1:5.

73. Because it is declared that God raised him from the dead. “This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we are all witnesses,” Acts 2: 32, Rom. 10:9, 10

74. Because God poured out upon the Apostles the Holy Spirit, through Jesus Christ, Tit. 3:6.

75. Because the reason assigned for the Holy Spirit not having been received earlier, is that Jesus was not then glorified. “The Holy Ghost was not yet given because that Jesus was not yet glorified,” John 7:39.

76. Because it is affirmed that Christ was exalted by God to be a Prince and a Saviour, Acts 5:31.

77. Because God made that same Jesus, who was crucified, both Lord and Christ, Acts 2: 36.

78. Because God gave him a name which is above every name, Phil. 2:9.

79. Because Christ was ordained of God to be the judge of the quick and the dead, Acts 10:42.

80. Because God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, Rom. 2:16.

81. Because all judgment is committed to Christ by the Father, John 5:22.

82. Because our Saviour grounds the importance of his judgment solely upon the circumstances, that it is not exclusively his own judgment which he pronounces, but that of the Father who sent him. “If I judge, my judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me,” John 8:16.

83. Because it is said, that, when he was received up into heaven, he “sat on the right hand of God,” Mark 16:19.

84. Because St. Paul affirms, that Christ, even since his ascension, “liveth unto God,” and “liveth by the power of God,” Rom. 6:10. 2 Cor. 12:4.

85. Because it is affirmed of Christ, that “when all things shall be subdued under him then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all,” 1 Cor. 15:28.

86. Because the Apostle John asserts that “no man hath seen God at any time”; which is not true, if Christ were God, John 1:18.

87. Because, in the prophecies of the Old Testament that relate to Christ, he is spoken of as a being distinct from and inferior to God, Deut. 18:15, John 1:45.

88. Because the Jews never expected that any other than a being distinct from and inferior to God was to be their Messiah, and yet there is no evidence that our Saviour ever so much as hinted to them that this expectation was erroneous.

89. Because it does not appear from the Scriptures, that the Jews except in two instances, ever opposed our Saviour on the ground that he pretended to be God or equal with God; whereas, had it been his custom to assume such identity or equality, in his conversation with a people so strongly attached to the doctrine of the divine unity, he would have found himself involved in a perpetual controversy with them on this point, some traces of which must have appeared in the New Testament.

90. Because in these two instances, when charged, in the one case, with making himself God, and in the other, with making himself equal with God, he positively denies the charges. In reply to the charge of assuming to be equal with God, he says immediately, “The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do”; and directly after, “I can of mine own self do nothing,” John 5:19, 30. In answer to the charge of making himself God, he appeals to the Jews in substance thus: Your own Scriptures call Moses a god, and your magistrates gods; I am surely not inferior to them, yet I did not call myself God, but only the Son of God, John 10:34-36.

91. Because, had his immediate disciples believe him to be the Almighty, would they have been so familiar with him, have argued with him, betrayed him, denied him, fled from him, and left him to be dragged to the cross?

92. Because the Apostles, after they had been filled with the Holy Ghost on the day of Pentecost, did not preach that Christ was God; but preached what was altogether inconsistent with such a doctrine, Acts 2:22; 13:23; 17:3, 31; 22:8.

93. Because there is no evidence to prove that the first converts to Christianity ever incurred the imputation of idolatry from the Jews, as they must have done had they believed and taught that the Son, as well as the Father, is Jehovah; while it is notorious that this imputation has been among the most common of the Jewish reproaches against Christians, since the Trinity became a doctrine of the Church.

94. Because there are in the New Testament seventeen passages, wherein the Father is styled one or only God, while there is not a single passage in which the Son is so styled.

95. Because there are 320 passages in which the Father is absolutely, and by way of eminence, called God; while there is not one in which the Son is thus called.

96. Because there are 105 passages in which the Father is denominated God, with peculiarly high titles and epithets, whereas the Son is not once denominated.

97. Because there are 90 passages wherein it is declared that all prayers and praises ought to be offered to Him, and that everything ought to be ultimately directed to his honor and glory; while of the Son no such declaration is ever made.

98. Because of 1,300 passages in the New Testament wherein the word God is mentioned, not one necessarily implies the existence of more than one person in the Godhead, or that this one is any other than the Father.

99. Because the passages wherein the Son is declared, positively, or by clearest implication, to be subordinate to the Father, deriving his being from Him, receiving from Him his divine power, and acting in all things wholly according to His will, are in number above 300.

100. Because, in a word, the supremacy of the Father, and the inferiority of the Son, is the simple, unembarrassed, and current doctrine of the Bible; whereas, that of their equality or identity is clothed in mystery, encumbered with difficulties, and dependent, at the best, upon few passages for support.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
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There is one man in the OT called Emmanuel also...
There were many different man of God, who were certainly God-with-us.

I think even more so now, as Christians. God's spirit is within us. We are made sons of God, members of God's household. We have God's own righteousness. God-with-us applies now to all Christians.

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Old 11-02-2013, 11:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JJ43211 View Post
To try and understand the trinity of God using our human references will lead to seemingly illogical situations. There are clear statements in the Bible of the God the Father and God the Son (Jesus) being the same being (see driftwoodpoint's list as a start above), and there are clear statements of the individual nature/persons of God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit. With God being a "higher" being than humans (more powerful, more intelligent, more loving etc), we cannot claim to fully understand God triune as revealed in the Bible. All we need to do is to believe the whole Bible, and not selective choose the parts that seem to fit with our own idea of how God should be, or should not be.

Submariner, you only quoted Bible verses showing the distinct nature of Jesus and not the many verses claiming that Jesus is God.

Do you know that Jesus claimed to be Jahwe (Jahwe "I am" in English", which so called Jehova witnesses pronounce as Jehova)? Yes, Jesus claimed to be God himself in many places and in many ways in the Bible:

In Exodus 3 Moses encountered God in the burning bush. God told Moses that he is the one He has chosen to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me 'What is His name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God replies to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God has said that His own name, His personal name, is "I AM." ["I am" is in Hewbrew "Jahwe" or as some pronounce it: "Jehova"]
In John 8:56-58 Jesus claims that it was he (Jesus) that spoke to Abraham from the bush: "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing My day; he saw it and was glad." "You are not yet 50 years old," they said to Him, "and you have seen Abraham?" "I tell you the truth," Jesus announced, "before Abraham was, I AM!" Jesus was the great I AM from before the beginning of time; He existed before Abraham ever was. He is claiming here to be the I AM of the Old Testament. Verse 59 says the Jews picked up stones to stone Him, but the Lord Jesus slipped away. The reason they wanted to stone Him was because stoning was the death penalty for blasphemy. He was claiming to be Yahweh--Jehovah--Almighty God--I AM. (Of course, it wasn't blasphemy when Christ claimed to be who He truly was!)

Furthermore John 8:24. "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I AM, you will indeed die in your sins." In your Bible, it may read "if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be...." The extra words are supplied by the editors; they're not in the original text. If you're familiar with Exodus 3 you don't need the extra words for it to make grammatical sense. The Lord Jesus is again claiming to be God.

Also in John 18:4. In the Garden of Gethsemane, Judas and some priests and soldiers are about to take Jesus prisoner. "Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to Him, went out and asked them, 'Who is it that you want?' 'Jesus of Nazareth,' they replied. 'I AM,' Jesus said. When He said, 'I AM,' they drew back and fell to the ground." (Again, in your Bible the editors may have supplied "I am [he]" to make it grammatically correct. The Greek just says, "I AM.")

The force of Jesus' claim to be Yahweh (I AM) was so powerful that it literally knocked the arresting officers and the Jewish priests off their feet!

Submariner, you have to take ALL information in the Bible into account before selectively quoting verses. Even if you quote a 1000 verses but only one side of it, you cannot claim to have a true presentation.
You may be tempted to accuse me of the same here, so in advance let me say that I don't deny the individual persons of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. However, the Bible is clear that they are all different persons of the one, single all-mighty God! Three in One. Our human brains struggle with this concept, but that is what the Bibles teaches.
You are wrong...
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:01 PM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
There were many different man of God, who were certainly God-with-us.

I think even more so now, as Christians. God's spirit is within us. We are made sons of God, members of God's household. We have God's own righteousness. God-with-us applies now to all Christians.

Then the one in the OT was also part of the trinity...
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:00 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
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Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Isa 9:6-7 seals the deal quite well.....among others. Would you like to continue?
Those who are spiritually blinded by Satan or by their or wanton refusal will not acknowledge the deity of Jesus.

[1] Jesus had the authority to forgive sins ... something only God can do
Mark 2:7
“Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Luke 5:21
The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
[2] Jesus knew the thoughts in the heart of people .... which is attributed to the LORD
Psalm 94:11
The LORD knows the thoughts of man; he knows that they are futile.

Matthew 9:4
Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?
[3] Jesus has power over the weather ... which God is controls
Job 37:15
Do you know how God controls the clouds and makes his lightning flash?

Ecclesiastes 8:8
No man has power over the wind to contain it ; so no one has power over the day of his death.

Matthew 8:26-27
He replied, “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm. The men were amazed and asked, “What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!”
then this:
Colossians 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

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