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Old 11-10-2008, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Twin Cities
3,570 posts, read 7,779,341 times
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I was moved to tears in our Sunday sermon this past Sunday. The pastor spoke on fruit and the narrow gate. They are two separate subjects so I'm creating two threads. However, close to the end of his sermon the pastor said, "Is what your life produces any different than what an unbeliever can produce?" I stopped breathing for a moment. That one sentence hit me like a brick wall. Is that true in my life? I thought. I don't know. I hope so. I now think.
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Old 11-10-2008, 08:31 PM
 
7,788 posts, read 10,449,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post


"Is what your life produces any different than what an unbeliever can produce?"


I don't know. I hope so.[

What caught June's attention about this thread is the very fact that June was thinking the exact, same thing as she was driving home from work, tonight, albiet, with a somewhat different slant, perspective. (To put it rather mildly?) Nonetheless, let it suffice (for the purposes of the OP) that we were thinking the same sort of thing, from opposite standpoints.

The conclusion that June came to was "No." No different.

You and I may "produce" the same things in life, but even then, productiveness is a very, very relative term. Someone who is born with a severe cognitive impairment may not learn to tie his or her shoe until the age of 20, yet that could be regarded as a significant achievement or production, given the limitations of the context. Likewise, someone who is illiterate all their lives and who lived in poverty as a result could learn how to read in their seventies. Again, a huge achievement for them, although nothing outwardly different to show for it...

June thinks perhaps it is not so much the 'end result' by way of actual production that is at the heart of the matter as much as it is the intent behind what is being done or produced. (Perhaps it's more attitudinal, including ambition vs. humililty around one's own productive achievements.)

Can Hoosier and June, polar opposities, truly produce the same things?


June thinks so.


And you?


Take gentle care.
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Old 11-10-2008, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville,Florida
3,772 posts, read 9,361,474 times
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Believers and non-believers can have a loving heart but it is that the believer's heart is for the Lord as one who is convicted and has Heavenly aspirations,as where the non-believer heart is anchored in the world,the love of what the world has to offer and that is what makes the difference.

A believer has a myopic focus on the Lord ,one who has the love for Him and as stated earlier is convicted by the Holy Spirit and should be leading non-believers and ones who have strayed from the Lord.When everyone realizes that God is the only way and that He is the answers to all of our problems and salvation,then is when we will considered as one as believers in the eyes of the Lord and will attain the Kingdom of Heaven.

Last edited by noland123; 11-10-2008 at 09:49 PM..
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Old 11-10-2008, 09:43 PM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,375,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noland123 View Post
Believers and non-believers can have a loving heart but it is that the believer's heart is for the Lord as one who is convicted and has Heavenly aspirations,as where the non-believer heart is anchored in the world,the love of what the world has to offer and that is what makes the difference.

A believer has a myopic focus on the Lord ,one who has the love for Him and as stated earlier is convicted by the Holy Spirit and should be leading non-believers and ones who have strayed to the Lord.When everyone realizes that God is the only way and that He is the answers to all of our problems and salvation,then is when we will considered as one as believers in the eyes of the Lord and will attain the Kingdom of Heaven.
Are "worldly" people-centered convictions any less righteous than god-centered convictions? Which one helps people and makes the world better? Which one ignores this life and just focuses on God? Unfortunately the latter can increase apathy for one's neighbor.
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Old 11-10-2008, 09:45 PM
 
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Quote:
June thinks perhaps it is not so much the 'end result' by way of actual production that is at the heart of the matter as much as it is the intent behind what is being done or produced. (Perhaps it's more attitudinal, including ambition vs. humililty around one's own productive achievements.)

I think God looks at our intent or motivation for doing certain actions


Do we do it for our selfish motives or is it to please God.

Last edited by Hoosier; 11-11-2008 at 06:26 AM.. Reason: adding quote for June's statements
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Old 11-10-2008, 09:50 PM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,375,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusisTruth View Post
June thinks perhaps it is not so much the 'end result' by way of actual production that is at the heart of the matter as much as it is the intent behind what is being done or produced. (Perhaps it's more attitudinal, including ambition vs. humililty around one's own productive achievements.)


I think God looks at our intent or motivation for doing certain actions


Do we do it for our selfish motives or is it to please God.
Pleasing God has a selfish motive. You want to get into heaven don't you?
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:31 PM
 
1,016 posts, read 2,703,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
I was moved to tears in our Sunday sermon this past Sunday. The pastor spoke on fruit and the narrow gate. They are two separate subjects so I'm creating two threads. However, close to the end of his sermon the pastor said, "Is what your life produces any different than what an unbeliever can produce?" I stopped breathing for a moment. That one sentence hit me like a brick wall. Is that true in my life? I thought. I don't know. I hope so. I now think.
Does the seed have knowledge of the plant that springs forth?

I believe that it's not for us to judge what our lives have produced, or are producing. Many a zealot has turned away more people than the quiet person who doesn't wear their religion on their sleeve has attracted. Your witness isn't what you tell people to believe, it's what your life tells people that you believe.

"Preach the gospel always. If necessary, use words." St. Francis of Assisi
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Old 11-11-2008, 04:06 AM
 
7,788 posts, read 10,449,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post


Which one helps people and makes the world better? Which one ignores this life and just focuses on God?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusisTruth View Post


I think God looks at our intent or motivation for doing certain actions


Do we do it for our selfish motives or is it to please God.



It seems to June that if one is ignoring this life and "just focusing on God," then they can't be doing a whole heck of alot "for God." --She is confounded as regards what they think they'd be focusing on.

June has an interesting job. June feels more herself, more self-actualized, more alive in doing her job than she could probably describe. June imagines she possesses a few "selfish motives" in doing her job, as she derives a tremendous amount of satisfaction in doing what she does. In fact, she loves what she does. She is ever mindful, on a daily basis, that she is genuinelly honored to do what she does; to be worthy of other people's trust in her. If June was a believer, she might be inclined to think "What better way to give glory to God than to get up each morning and go out into the world to do what one truly loves?" --But alas, that's not the case.

June helps people in her job. She doesn't do it exclusively for herself; she basically does it (in small part) because she believes that people have the capacity to transform themselves and their lives. That they possess the inherent ability to overcome those aspects of themselves that they played little or no part in bringing into the world with them...June does not go to work with any lofty goals or ideals each day. She didn't chose her profession based on any lofty goals/ideals. She purposely felt that if she was able to help just one individual change, then her "job" at the end of her career would have paid off.

So here's June's question:

Would June be better off doing what she does as her atheist June self, or would June and the world be better off with June collecting money at the toll booth to the Massachusetts Turnpike each day, but doing so as a "believer?" June is really curious...


Take gentle care.


Post Script: --And June has nothing, she repeats nothing against those who work collecting tolls, or any kind of work/job...
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Twin Cities
3,570 posts, read 7,779,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Pleasing God has a selfish motive. You want to get into heaven don't you?

Personally I would say no. I'm not trying to please God just to get into heaven. It's not about heaven. It's about spending eternity with someone you love, admire, cherish and can't live without. I want to be with Him forever because I love him with all of my being. I want to please him, yes, like I would please a parent. While heaven is great and grandiose and I most definitely want to go there, it is about being with the one you love and who loves you.
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,459 posts, read 21,208,025 times
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Is what your life produces any different than what an unbeliever can produce?"

No..If I begin to think my life is more productive just because I am a believer, then I am guilty of pride....
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