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Old 11-16-2008, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,253,338 times
Reputation: 173

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PG77 View Post
I have wondered about this myself. Some people believe it will happen before and some after. I tend to think that we will have to go through some of the tribulation as the Bible says it was shortened for the elect.
When I first accepted Jesus in the 80's, I'd never heard of this "rapture".

Before I even heard the word "rapture", I realized from Scripture that suffering for my faith was a possiblity.
Later, I was introduced to teachings about the rapture.
I struggled to believe it - as to my knowledge that was all that was being taught and I figured everybody else knew better than me.

Still, Scripture did not seem to paint a picture of our getting a "free ticket out of town" to avoid percecution.

I read Hal Lindsay and his "favorite" verse in 1 Thessalonians proving the validity of the rapture, but like him, I neglected to notice the sequence spelled out.
The resurrection happens first and then...

I've seen preachers on TV jump through all sorts of hoops to try to make the rapture happen at the beginning, but wanting it to be so - will not make it so.

The pre-trib rapture has been used to get people saved, but I wonder if the apostasy will not happen when these who believe there will be no percecution for the church are suddenly confronted with that very thing.
I wonder if they will begin to doubt their faith and even seek to save their lives.

Belief in a "post-trib" rapture is not just some issue of doctrine for those who hold to it.
It is the confontation that there may actually be a price to be paid and a realization that one MUST make one's faith sure.
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:09 AM
 
3,758 posts, read 7,525,268 times
Reputation: 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio View Post
I read Hal Lindsay and his "favorite" verse in 1 Thessalonians proving the validity of the rapture, but like him, I neglected to notice the sequence spelled out.
The resurrection happens first and then...

I've seen preachers on TV jump through all sorts of hoops to try to make the rapture happen at the beginning, but wanting it to be so - will not make it so.
Jack Van Impe believes in pre-trib.
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
1,577 posts, read 2,338,916 times
Reputation: 413
Quote:
Still, Scripture did not seem to paint a picture of our getting a "free ticket out of town" to avoid percecution.

I read Hal Lindsay and his "favorite" verse in 1 Thessalonians proving the validity of the rapture, but like him, I neglected to notice the sequence spelled out.
The resurrection happens first and then...

I've seen preachers on TV jump through all sorts of hoops to try to make the rapture happen at the beginning, but wanting it to be so - will not make it so.

The pre-trib rapture has been used to get people saved, but I wonder if the apostasy will not happen when these who believe there will be no percecution for the church are suddenly confronted with that very thing.
I wonder if they will begin to doubt their faith and even seek to save their lives.

Belief in a "post-trib" rapture is not just some issue of doctrine for those who hold to it.
It is the confontation that there may actually be a price to be paid and a realization that one MUST make one's faith sure.
I was the opposite having grown up in a Pre-Trib belief but after many years of reading scripture I believe that the church will experience testing during the tribulation as you have described.
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,253,338 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG77 View Post
Jack Van Impe believes in pre-trib.
Yes he does - as does Grant Jeffrey and a host of others.
Since then, many people like the idea and there are countless books and even some movies promoting it

The concept as a doctrine was begun by John Darby of the back in the 1800s.
However, if you read the meat of 1 Thesselonians, the main purpose of the letter was to correct the idea that these people had been left behind.
The reason they could know that they were not left behind - was that the resurrection had not yet happened.
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:27 AM
 
3,758 posts, read 7,525,268 times
Reputation: 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio View Post
Yes he does - as does Grant Jeffrey and a host of others.
Since then, many people like the idea and there are countless books and even some movies promoting it

The concept as a doctrine was begun by John Darby of the back in the 1800s.
However, if you read the meat of 1 Thesselonians, the main purpose of the letter was to correct the idea that these people had been left behind.
The reason they could know that they were not left behind - was that the resurrection had not yet happened.
Herbert Armstrong believed in post-trib and I tend to agree.
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,253,338 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG77 View Post
Herbert Armstrong believed in post-trib and I tend to agree.
I used to watch the late Herbert W. Armstrong on TV.
I also read his book: The United States and Britian in Bible Prophecy.

It confused me at the time, but now I realize He was on to something concerning the northern and southern kingdoms.
However, he made assumptions in saying that these lost tribes could be identified as whole countries.

I disagree and I think the many of the splinter churches - after his death tend to interpret Scrupture in terms of their little church as being the "true" church.

I also think they get too much under Old Testament rules and regulations.

Speaking as one who observes God's 7th day (not SDA), we are to hold to the spirit of the Law and not the letter. (Romans 8)
Mark 2:27 Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

The value of understanding the 2 kingdoms is in differentiating "The Whole House of Israel" (Jacob) from "The House of Israel" (northern) from "Judah" or "The House of Judah" (southern).

It is also useful in understanding what Jesus meant when He said He was only sent unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
...Meaning us - as the northen kingdom never returned from Assyria, but were dispersed among the nations -
becoming known as the lost tribes of Israel. You and I could be decendent as individuals, but not know it as their identity as being of Israel was lost.

If one is curious what this is about:
1 Kings 11:26-39 - The division: Why the split? (Solomon’s sin)
Jeremiah 3 - The divorce: God’s “reaction” to the ways of the northern kingdom
2 Kings 17 - The dispersion: Israel sent into Assyria.
Assyria replaced the population with other people they had conquered.
These people are called the Samaritans.

I know this is a bit off topic, but you mentioned H.W.Armstrong, so I had to put in my 2 cents.
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:13 PM
 
Location: SoCal
316 posts, read 628,433 times
Reputation: 68
The Timing Of The Rapture. (Part 1)
http://endtimemp3.gsradio.net:8080 /endtime/media/mp3/PR030708.mp3 (http://endtimemp3.gsradio.net:8080%20/endtime/media/mp3/PR030708.mp3 - broken link)
(Part 2)
http://endtimemp3.gsradio.net:8080 /endtime/media/mp3/PR031208.mp3 (http://endtimemp3.gsradio.net:8080%20/endtime/media/mp3/PR031208.mp3 - broken link)
(Part 3)
http://endtimemp3.gsradio.net:8080/e...3/PR031308.mp3
(Part 4)
http://endtimemp3.gsradio.net:8080/e...3/PR031908.mp3
(Part 5 )
http://endtimemp3.gsradio.net:8080 /endtime/media/mp3/PR032608.mp3 (http://endtimemp3.gsradio.net:8080%20/endtime/media/mp3/PR032608.mp3%20Send - broken link)
( Part 6 )
http://endtimemp3.gsradio.net:8080 /endtime/media/mp3/PR040308.mp3 (http://endtimemp3.gsradio.net:8080%20/endtime/media/mp3/PR040308.mp3%20Send - broken link)
( Part 7 )
http://endtimemp3.gsradio.net:8080 /endtime/media/mp3/PR040908.mp3 (http://endtimemp3.gsradio.net:8080%20/endtime/media/mp3/PR040908.mp3%20Send - broken link)


Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Eph 5:16
FirstWatch

Last edited by jetway777; 11-16-2008 at 12:48 PM..
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,253,338 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetway777 View Post
The Timing Of The Rapture. (Part 1)
...
Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Eph 5:16
FirstWatch
Hi Jetway,
Thanks for the links!
The syntax has a problem though.
I even tried copy/paste into a browser.
Certainly the ":" in the middle is no-no.

Try it again - (edit your post).
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:56 PM
 
Location: SoCal
316 posts, read 628,433 times
Reputation: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio View Post
Hi Jetway,
Thanks for the links!
The syntax has a problem though.
I even tried copy/paste into a browser.
Certainly the ":" in the middle is no-no.

Try it again - (edit your post).
They Work For Me ???

You Can Go To Audio 3/08 and 4/08 Shows To Listen !
http://www.endtime.com


Redeeming The time, because the days are evil. Eph 5:16
FirstWatch
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Old 11-16-2008, 01:08 PM
 
3,758 posts, read 7,525,268 times
Reputation: 858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio View Post
I used to watch the late Herbert W. Armstrong on TV.
I also read his book: The United States and Britian in Bible Prophecy.

It confused me at the time, but now I realize He was on to something concerning the northern and southern kingdoms.
However, he made assumptions in saying that these lost tribes could be identified as whole countries.

I disagree and I think the many of the splinter churches - after his death tend to interpret Scrupture in terms of their little church as being the "true" church.

I also think they get too much under Old Testament rules and regulations.

Speaking as one who observes God's 7th day (not SDA), we are to hold to the spirit of the Law and not the letter. (Romans 8)
Mark 2:27 Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

The value of understanding the 2 kingdoms is in differentiating "The Whole House of Israel" (Jacob) from "The House of Israel" (northern) from "Judah" or "The House of Judah" (southern).

It is also useful in understanding what Jesus meant when He said He was only sent unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
...Meaning us - as the northen kingdom never returned from Assyria, but were dispersed among the nations -
becoming known as the lost tribes of Israel. You and I could be decendent as individuals, but not know it as their identity as being of Israel was lost.

If one is curious what this is about:
1 Kings 11:26-39 - The division: Why the split? (Solomon’s sin)
Jeremiah 3 - The divorce: God’s “reaction” to the ways of the northern kingdom
2 Kings 17 - The dispersion: Israel sent into Assyria.
Assyria replaced the population with other people they had conquered.
These people are called the Samaritans.

I know this is a bit off topic, but you mentioned H.W.Armstrong, so I had to put in my 2 cents.
I used to attend the "Church" but when they came to visit me and were checking my place out it made me feel very awkward. It was like I had to be a certain way before they would accept me. Although I do believe in some of the things they teach, or taught, or I am not sure since the church split, I wasn't comfortable with it and left.
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