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Old 11-11-2008, 05:07 PM
 
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Hello fellow believers

As we go further into the future, as we see in some congregations things starts to change. The church as we know was to minister the word to the people and to send out missionaries to other nations to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus. And God had left that responsibility to us as a people. Also we have teachers, and shepherds over the congregation but I believe something is starting to change but to started way before I got into the scene. I am an outsider looking in. I truly want to be saved, but I must be sure what is told to me is true or to my family, so I search for my own answers and have an open mind to see other people as well and find the closest to meet my need. You know that everybody has their own interpretation; it is hard to find wisdom and worthiness in the world. Anyway here's some Info that I have found maybe it will help the others that seek too. One thing for sure we can *** agree that there will be a judgment day, I hope that as we minister the words in the congregation that we also minister God's judgment upon sins as well.


Shepherds over the flock:
Throughout the Bible image of Shepherd is an important one. God provides Shepherd,Teachers and Pastors for His people to watch over them, guide and care for them, and lead them. From Mose in the Old Testament to Jesus in the New Testament, God the Father provides faithful, devoted leaders after His own heart. God rules with a heart of knowledge and understanding, not falsehood and deceit.
The word WOE a harsh message from Jesus of Judgment. Shepherds: In ancient Middle East, the ideal of Great king Ps 3: 1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. And was reflected in the reign of David, the shepherd-king, But instead of protecting and nurturing the nation, the shepherd kings of ISRAEL had scattered and not attended to or “visited” the people.
The people had not sought the Lord, nor had the priests, rulers, or prophets. Those who should have known God most intimately did not know God at all. The rulers transgressed against God and His Covenant.
The prophesied in the name of Baal rather than God. In Judah’s lifestyle, instead of correcting their erroneous behavior, the people were engaged in perpetual backsliding, falling deeper and deeper into sin and despair. Hold Fast: In stubborn defiance, the people clung to their lives in deceit or “treachery.”
God give the responsibility of maintaining justice Judah’s, Pastors, leaders had become Dull-Hearted as in Hebrews 5: 7 – 14
Who in the days of
his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Dumbfounded by the chastisement that God the Father had brought upon them.
Because the leaders of the people had sought God with a whole heart, they would not prosper with the growth of the flocks. Instead the Shepherd would lose their flocks. The people would be scattered like sheep. Jeremiah: Some scoffers dared to defy The living God and the word revealed through Jeremiah, taunting the Lord to bring the judgment threatened by His spokesman, Jeremiah pointed out that he took no pleasure in proclaiming judgment. He remained a devoted Shepherd who was intimately concerned for his own people.

Last edited by TheWordIsOne; 11-11-2008 at 05:10 PM.. Reason: Adjusting letter
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Old 11-12-2008, 12:36 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 845,675 times
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My understanding of "the great falling away" that was to come, "the great apostasy" was what happened when what should have been the body of Christ was replaced with Institutional Christianity. This process was markedly advanced after about 500 years when ritual began replacing one anothering in the gatherings of the believers.. They began to have soulical leadership, men in charge rather than the headship of Christ with the Bishops who were professionals to perform for them rather than every member functioning on the way to the fulness of Christ. They more and more copied the Roman bureaucracy. This was captivity to Babylon as surely as Israel was deported to Babylon in earlier times. It developed into a system that murdered countless followers of Jesus.

Many today are still confused, not discering the difference between religious systems with men in control and the wife of the lamb. They think those intimate with the indwelling Holy Spirit are synonomous with those intimate with Institutional systems, even that to be right a believer must be submitted to elite men with titles of honor from other men. I assure you, if you can look up and see the bottom of another man's boot, you're not in the kingdom of God! The kingdom of God is a realm that is God Himself in manifestation and God reigns therein. When God sends the Spirit of His Son into us all that Jesus is and does is in us. Our maturing is the extent to which we are available to Him. God is JEALOUS and refuses other mediators. Jesus died to bring us into direct intimacy with God. Now other men are inserted between us and God and they expect us to pay them for it. I don't care how knowledgeable the man on stage is, he's not the body of Christ; and, JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!!
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Old 11-12-2008, 01:07 AM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,779,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMRohde View Post
My understanding of "the great falling away" that was to come, "the great apostasy" was what happened when what should have been the body of Christ was replaced with Institutional Christianity. This process was markedly advanced after about 500 years when ritual began replacing one anothering in the gatherings of the believers.. They began to have soulical leadership, men in charge rather than the headship of Christ with the Bishops who were professionals to perform for them rather than every member functioning on the way to the fulness of Christ. They more and more copied the Roman bureaucracy. This was captivity to Babylon as surely as Israel was deported to Babylon in earlier times. It developed into a system that murdered countless followers of Jesus.

Many today are still confused, not discering the difference between religious systems with men in control and the wife of the lamb. They think those intimate with the indwelling Holy Spirit are synonomous with those intimate with Institutional systems, even that to be right a believer must be submitted to elite men with titles of honor from other men. I assure you, if you can look up and see the bottom of another man's boot, you're not in the kingdom of God! The kingdom of God is a realm that is God Himself in manifestation and God reigns therein. When God sends the Spirit of His Son into us all that Jesus is and does is in us. Our maturing is the extent to which we are available to Him. God is JEALOUS and refuses other mediators. Jesus died to bring us into direct intimacy with God. Now other men are inserted between us and God and they expect us to pay them for it. I don't care how knowledgeable the man on stage is, he's not the body of Christ; and, JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!!
Reps..good post
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Old 11-12-2008, 08:24 AM
 
1,111 posts, read 1,379,430 times
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Post Irresponsible Shepherds, Pastors over God’s People

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMRohde View Post
My understanding of "the great falling away" that was to come, "the great apostasy" was what happened when what should have been the body of Christ was replaced with Institutional Christianity. This process was markedly advanced after about 500 years when ritual began replacing one anothering in the gatherings of the believers.. They began to have soulical leadership, men in charge rather than the headship of Christ with the Bishops who were professionals to perform for them rather than every member functioning on the way to the fulness of Christ. They more and more copied the Roman bureaucracy. This was captivity to Babylon as surely as Israel was deported to Babylon in earlier times. It developed into a system that murdered countless followers of Jesus.

Many today are still confused, not discering the difference between religious systems with men in control and the wife of the lamb. They think those intimate with the indwelling Holy Spirit are synonomous with those intimate with Institutional systems, even that to be right a believer must be submitted to elite men with titles of honor from other men. I assure you, if you can look up and see the bottom of another man's boot, you're not in the kingdom of God! The kingdom of God is a realm that is God Himself in manifestation and God reigns therein. When God sends the Spirit of His Son into us all that Jesus is and does is in us. Our maturing is the extent to which we are available to Him. God is JEALOUS and refuses other mediators. Jesus died to bring us into direct intimacy with God. Now other men are inserted between us and God and they expect us to pay them for it. I don't care how knowledgeable the man on stage is, he's not the body of Christ; and, JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!!

Irresponsible Shepherds, Pastors over God’s People
Ezekiel 34: Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
8 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

Ezekiel 34:11 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.
13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.
14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.
15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.
16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.
17 And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats.
18 Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet?
19 And as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet.
20 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD unto them; Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle.
21 Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad;
22 Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle.
23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
24 And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.
25 And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.
26 And I will make them and the places round about my hill a blessing; and I will cause the shower to come down in his season; there shall be showers of blessing.
27 And the tree of the field shall yield her fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase, and they shall be safe in their land, and shall know that I am the LORD, when I have broken the bands of their yoke, and delivered them out of the hand of those that served themselves of them.
28 And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make them afraid.
29 And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more.
30 Thus shall they know that I the LORD their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord GOD.
31 And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, are men, and I am your God, saith the Lord GOD.

Last edited by TheWordIsOne; 11-12-2008 at 08:26 AM.. Reason: Adjusting words
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Old 11-12-2008, 08:36 AM
 
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The warring between and critcism of other christians, other ministries and denominations is driving more and more people away from church.

It's interesting that these same religious people believe that they are doing God's work.
In a way, I guess you could say that they are.

One thing's for sure, they are being used as tools to fulfil biblical prophecy.
These "christians" are the very ones who are driving people away from God.

they are causing people to fall away...

Last edited by World Citizen; 11-12-2008 at 08:51 AM..
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:42 AM
 
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No its not any of those things people have dreamed up in this forum. As I said the world in Latin America, Asia and Africa are is falling away despite the Western bickering. Thank God some of them will probably send missionaries here to restore some of us.


the Apostasy referred to is here :

Matthew 24
10"At that time many will (N)fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.

2 Thessolonians 2
)Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the [a](J)apostasy comes first, and the (K)man of lawlessness is revealed, the (L)son of destruction,

1` Timothy 4
1But (A)the Spirit explicitly says that (B)in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to (C)deceitful spirits and (D)doctrines of demons, 2by means of the hypocrisy of liars (E)seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
3men who (F)forbid marriage and advocate (G)abstaining from foods which (H)God has created to be (I)gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
4For (J)everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is (K)received with gratitude;
5for it is sanctified by means of (L)the word of God and prayer.



1st question. Has anyone recently noticed Christians forbidding eating certain food or marriage?




This is a carry over from chapter 3



1 Timothy 3
16By common confession, great is (AF)the mystery of godliness:
He who was (AG)revealed in the flesh,
Was (AH)vindicated in the Spirit,
(AI)Seen by angels,
(AJ)Proclaimed among the nations,
(AK)Believed on in the world,
(AL)Taken up in glory.

This heresy is recognized by John

1 john 4
By this you know the Spirit of God: (D)every spirit that (E)confesses that (F)Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
3and every spirit that (G)does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the (H)antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and (I)now it is already in the world.



This doctrine was still in existence at the time of Irenaeus(2nd century AD)

who opposed it, who said in Against Heresies book 1




http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine...s/advhaer1.txt

CHAP. IX.--REFUTATION OF THE IMPIOUS INTERPRETATIONS OF THESE
HERETICS.
2. The fallacy, then, of this exposition is manifest. For when
John, proclaiming one God, the Almighty, and one Jesus Christ, the
Only-begotten, by whom all things were made, declares that this was
the Son of God, this the Only-begotten, this the Former of all things,
this the true Light who enlighteneth every man this the Creator of the
world, this He that came to His own, this He that became flesh and
dwelt among us,

They had a conception of an evil creator of the material world called the demiurge. Anyway its a study in the Gnostics that I suggest Christians make themselves aware.

So we know also it was during the 2nd century AD in more detail then we see in the Gospels but was clearly evident.




Now we see again that what Jesus said in Mathew 24 was fulfilled in Jude.

Jude
17But you, (BC)beloved, (BD)ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by (BE)the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18that they were saying to you, "(BF)In the last time there will be mockers, (BG)following after their own ungodly lusts."
19These are the ones who cause divisions, (BH)worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.
Also again by John



1 John 2
18Children, (AV)it is the last hour; and just as you heard that (AW)antichrist is coming, (AX)even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
19(AY)They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, (AZ)so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

2nd question: Given the confirmation is scripture and historical support in detail why is anyone just deciding for themselves the context of this "falling away"?
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:48 AM
 
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I do know the Word on these things. I also believe that what I said is true.

Do you think that because of offence that doors are being opened for many to fall away?
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:27 AM
 
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Wink many to fall away? But God

Quote:
Originally Posted by World Citizen View Post
I do know the Word on these things. I also believe that what I said is true.

Do you think that because of offence that doors are being opened for many to fall away?

There are many church follow like us that are very faithful to Christ if there is something wrong with the doctrines that are being talked, they would ask their pastors about what is going on some congregations. If you find that it is not in line with the Gospel of Jesus then you will know. Remember just watch and see,

There is the invisible church and the eternal Church. The eternal Church is the body of Christ.
The congregation or where people go to worship it is a structure or a building. We are the eternal Church living Stone's that cannot be damage, your faith is the greatest weapon you have.

Romans 8:36-39 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 10:25-30 I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are one.

Last edited by TheWordIsOne; 11-12-2008 at 11:44 AM.. Reason: adjusting words
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:54 AM
 
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[quote=TheWordIsOne;6127504]There are many church follow like us that are very faithful to Christ if there is something wrong with the doctrines that are being talked, they would ask their pastors about what is going on some congregations. If you find that it is not in line with the Gospel of Jesus then you will know. Remember just watch and see,


God Give Answers to the Shepherd
Jeremiah 12: 5If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? And if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?
For even thy brethren, and the house of thy father, even they have dealt treacherously with thee; yea, they have called a multitude after thee: believe them not, though they speak fair words unto thee.
I have forsaken mine house, I have left mine heritage; I have given the dearly beloved of my soul into the hand of her enemies.
Mine heritage is unto me as a lion in the forest; it crieth out against me: therefore have I hated it.
Mine heritage is unto me as a speckled bird, the birds round about are against her; come ye, assemble all the beasts of the field, come to devour.
Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.
They have made it desolate, and being desolate it mourneth unto me; the whole land is made desolate, because no man layeth it to heart.
The spoilers are come upon all high places through the wilderness: for the sword of the LORD shall devour from the one end of the land even to the other end of the land: no flesh shall have peace.
They have sown wheat, but shall reap thorns: they have put themselves to pain, but shall not profit: and they shall be ashamed of your revenues because of the fierce anger of the LORD.
Thus saith the LORD against all mine evil neighbours, that touch the inheritance which I have caused my people Israel to inherit; Behold, I will pluck them out of their land, and pluck out the house of Judah from among them.
And it shall come to pass, after that I have plucked them out I will return, and have compassion on them, and will bring them again, every man to his heritage, and every man to his land.
And it shall come to pass, if they will diligently learn the ways of my people, to swear by my name, The LORD liveth; as they taught my people to swear by Baal; then shall they be built in the midst of my people.
But if they will not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, saith the LORD.
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:58 AM
 
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Default "Am I my brother's keeper???"

I am really speaking of going away from God due to what some religious folks are doing (as well as leaving church)
because they've become disillusioned with God.

I guess the question is, How do our words and our actions effect others faith?

At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said,
Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me,
it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come;
but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! ....

Last edited by World Citizen; 11-12-2008 at 12:07 PM..
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