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Old 03-22-2009, 12:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
there was tithing before Moses, and giving to the Levites was for every 3 years as Deut 14 declares

the tithing principle/ideas came from Jacob..not from Abraham since we dont know how Abraham used his tithe. We know it was tenth but dont know in what.

Also, tithing also came from animals
And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
Based upon everything I have read, Jacob promised to give 10% to God based upon God giving him the land of Canaan as an inheritance. Jacob did not inherit that land, even though he was brought to it, and there is never any record that he tithed, only a conditional promise to tithe upon inheritance of the land of Canaan (Israel.)

p://www.masters-table.org/studies/piferstudy2.html

Again, the tithe goes back to the inheritance of the land of Israel. Furthermore, Moses led the Israelites to the promised land, and the generation after his inherited the promised land. This is when Israel begin tithing. So, based upon my study of the Bible there was no tithing before Moses.

Animals are part of the land. When you have land, you raise animals.
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Old 03-22-2009, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
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again that's not what the bible says. I can be wrong...you can be wrong, but the bible is not wrong

20And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,

21So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: 22And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.


Jacob states OF ALL that God will give him, that Jacob will give 10%


So tell me ...was Jacob before Moses or after?


Quote:
Originally Posted by HSVbulldawg View Post
Based upon everything I have read, Jacob promised to give 10% to God based upon God giving him the land of Canaan as an inheritance. Jacob did not inherit that land, even though he was brought to it, and there is never any record that he tithed, only a conditional promise to tithe upon inheritance of the land of Canaan (Israel.)

p://www.masters-table.org/studies/piferstudy2.html

Again, the tithe goes back to the inheritance of the land of Israel. Furthermore, Moses led the Israelites to the promised land, and the generation after his inherited the promised land. This is when Israel begin tithing. So, based upon my study of the Bible, you are wrong. There was no tithing before Moses.
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Old 03-22-2009, 12:53 PM
 
298 posts, read 623,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
again that's not what the bible says

20And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,

21So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: 22And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.


Jacob states OF ALL that God will give him, that Jacob will give 10%
Again, read the Bible.

OF ALL God will give him - what will God give him? What God promised Abraham and Isaac as well - the promised land
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Old 03-22-2009, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
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lol I didn't see Jacob setting any conditions about Canaan do you?

If you say that you will tithe of all God will give you ...what does that mean?

THAT MEANS that if you get 10 cents...that you will tithe because that includes ALL

Quote:
Originally Posted by HSVbulldawg View Post
Again, read the Bible.

OF ALL God will give him - what will God give him? What God promised Abraham and Isaac as well - the promised land
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:09 PM
 
298 posts, read 623,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
lol I didn't see Jacob setting any conditions about Canaan do you?

If you say that you will tithe of all God will give you ...what does that mean?

THAT MEANS that if you get 10 cents...that you will tithe because that includes ALL
The whole conversation is about God's promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Genesis 28:13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;"

Genesis 28:15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

Jacob's vow:

Genesis 28:
20And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
21So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
22And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Jacob is talking about returning to Canaan, where he is, and receiving God's inheritance.

Yes, the Bible is never wrong.
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
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and he gave tenth of ALL not just of the seed of the land.

Same thing with the Mosaic law which was just the seed of the land....


same thing with Malachi where God states to TEST HIM



Quote:
Originally Posted by HSVbulldawg View Post
The whole conversation is about God's promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Genesis 28:13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;"

Genesis 28:15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

Jacob's vow:

Genesis 28:
20And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
21So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
22And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.[/b]

Jacob is talking about returning to Canaan, where he is, and receiving God's inheritance.

Yes, the Bible is never wrong.
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:14 PM
 
298 posts, read 623,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
and he gave tenth of ALL not just of the seed of the land.

Same thing with the Mosaic law which was just the seed of the land....
That comment doesn't make any sense. Jacob is referring to God bringing him back to Canaan to possess the land. In other words, God is giving him the land. So, the tithe is 10% of all of the land, all that God will give him.

Did people tithe children too, hmm? What about wives? What about food that is given him on his journey? A tenth of ALL? When you try to define that word out of the context of the passage, it doesn't make sense.
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
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what you're saying also doesnt make sense

that's why you use more than one verse to make sense of it all

Deut and Leviticus specifically speaks that it isnt JUST about the seed of the land.

Tithes also included meat

I do believe that tithes is food and/or shoud be turned into food as it states in Deut 14.

I do believe that this law may not apply to Gentiles
I do also believe whether it's a law or not...doing so will benefit a person more than someone who doesn't.

If you put 5%, and I put 10% ..you better believe I will be blessed more

Quote:
Originally Posted by HSVbulldawg View Post
That comment doesn't make any sense. Jacob is referring to God bringing him back to Canaan to possess the land. In other words, God is giving him the land. So, the tithe is 10% of all of the land, all that God will give him.

Did people tithe children too, hmm? What about wives? What about food that is given him on his journey? A tenth of ALL? When you try to define that word out of the context of the passage, it doesn't make sense.
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:20 PM
JLA
 
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HSVbulldawg,
this is principle that we are to use for doctrine.
Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? [them that are] weaned from the milk, [and] drawn from the breasts.
28:10 For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little:
28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
28:12 To whom he said, This [is] the rest [wherewith] ye may cause the weary to rest; and this [is] the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

By the way, I don't have a problem with the Laws as given by God to Moses for him to write in a book and put in the side of the ark as a witness against the children of Israel. Nor do I have a problem with the only Law ever written by God for man to live by. Understanding which laws were abolished by Jesus when He died on the cross is very important. Nor do I have a problem with implied rules as understood by the seed of Adam before their exile of Egypt.
Cheers.
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:24 PM
 
298 posts, read 623,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
what you're saying also doesnt make sense

that's why you use more than one verse to make sense of it all

Deut and Leviticus specifically speaks that it isnt JUST about the seed of the land.

Tithes also included meat

I do believe that tithes is food and/or shoud be turned into food as it states in Deut 14.

I do believe that this law may not apply to Gentiles
I do also believe whether it's a law or not...doing so will benefit a person more than someone who doesn't.

If you put 5%, and I put 10% ..you better believe I will be blessed more
LOL, if the interpretation of one verse doesn't fit in the context (thus all of the other verses) then it's an incorrect interpretation. That's why I use the other verses.

Animals are a part of the land, just like the plants are. The Levites could not raise crops or animals because they had no land. That's why it's a tithe of the increase of the land (animals and plants.)

Christians are to give as led by the Spirit to support the workers of the gospel and God's ministry and to support the poor. We are also to fellowship with each other (which realistically takes some money.) However, this is not the tithe. Furthermore, we are not to test God via giving 10% to a church and expecting a material blessing. God never promises that we won't be homeless, hungry, or beaten to death, even if we give Him everything. That's why it's so important to understand the principle of what the tithe was and what God did via the tithe.
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