Do You Submit to your husbands as Ephesisans 5:22 teaches? (crucifixion, Revelation, evolve)

[NCyank]

Originally Posted by renriq02

The bible was written by Jews
If you dont understand Jewish culture or history then you will not appreciate the full context of the bible

I was born/raised Jewish.
I also went to school to learn of what other denominations believe, and why they do, and learned it from a Jewish perspective.

Paul writes from a Jewish perspective and quotes many verses from the OT.
So do all the other authors which will include Jesus Christ who was Jewish, and quoted from the OT.

the covering of heads was not cultural thing for the Corinth as they were very liberal. Paul was teaching from what Jews believe not because of Corinth

As the covering of heads indicate it was for the 'angels'

I wonder, if even God himself was standing before you, if you would listen before you would speak.
BTW...God's not Jewish you know.

You are demonstrating yet again what I warned about in the above post. Your attitude here, suggesting that I and others who lack the knowledge you possess can't possibly fully understand Biblical context and meaning (although God reveals Himself to me DIRECTLY through HIS WORD and that context is MORE than sufficient), will permeate your other threads, posts, conversations and interactions driving a wedge between those who are seeking and you, who are supposed to point the way to God. Instead, you repeatedly rely on your great knowledge and understanding while diminishing those around you and diverting attention from God. I could direct you to some relevant verses but you would only say I don't understand the context or the meaning and disregard me anyway.

I actually feel very sad for you right now. Oh, and frustrated....did I mention frustrated??

[renriq02]

God invented the Jewish Traditions

You're right...they're not Jewish Traditions...they are God's traditions.

Originally Posted by NCyank

I wonder, if even God himself was standing before you, if you would listen before you would speak.
BTW...God's not Jewish you know.

You are demonstrating yet again what I warned about in the above post. Your attitude here, suggesting that I and others who lack the knowledge you possess can't possibly fully understand Biblical context and meaning (although God reveals Himself to me DIRECTLY through HIS WORD and that context is MORE than sufficient), will permeate your other threads and posts, conversations and interactions driving a wedge between those who are seeking and you, who are supposed to point the way to God. Instead, you repeatedly rely on your great knowledge and understanding while diminishing those around you. I could direct you to some relevant verses but you would only say I don't understand the context or the meaning and disregard me anyway.

I actually feel very sad for you right now. Oh, and frustrated....did I mention frustrated??

[renriq02]

It seems that nobody can bring up where in the bible does it state that these teachings dont apply to TODAY

There is only 1 interpretation for the bible not many
The interpretation back will apply to today as it did then.

The Word of God doesnt change....people change


I'll leave it like that since it seems everyone is having a hard time proving that it doesn't apply to today ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by renriq02

All of the first Christians were all Jewish

Christianity is a denomination under Judaism


Again please show where in the bible does it say that Paul/Peter's teaching do not apply to today?

Either you are truly unable to comprehend and are simply responding with your rote memorized scripts . . . or you are deliberately being obtuse. How do you read this part of my post?

"ALL the scriptures apply today to our SPIRITUAL relationship with God . . . not carnal matters of culture and tradition. I have never rejected the scriptures . . . just the Neanderthal CARNAL interpretations of it."

Here let me help you out

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Here let me help you out. Righteousness is a state of MIND (i.e. SPIRITUAL) not CARNAL. Inspiration is NOT dictation. All inspiration is filtered through the culture and traditions of the receiver. The spiritual "meat" must be extracted from it.

[renriq02]

so please elaborate on what the passage of Ephesians 5 means?

what is the SPIRITUAL interpretation of it.

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Either you are truly unable to comprehend and are simply responding with your rote memorized scripts . . . or you are deliberately being obtuse. How do you read this part of my post?

"ALL the scriptures apply today to our SPIRITUAL relationship with God . . . not carnal matters of culture and tradition. I have never rejected the scriptures . . . just the Neanderthal CARNAL interpretations of it."Here let me help you out. Righteousness is a state of MIND (i.e. SPIRITUAL) not CARNAL. Inspiration is NOT dictation. All inspiration is filtered through the culture and traditions of the receiver. The spiritual "meat" must be extracted from it.

[antjraf]

For those who feel they have greater interpretive skills than others, and in the interest of knowing God's truth, how should we discern these scriptures?

1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

To me, it speaks of Paul teaching to imitate him as he imitates Christ.

He told them to keep the traditions of Christ.

Paul states that God has established principles of order, authority, and accountability through headship.

He decribes, in their culture, the manner in which to display this order. In our culture the manner would and should be different, but the principle is the same.

He explains that since the beginning this was so since Eve was created to be a helper to Adam (Genesis 2:18).

He reminds us though that this is not the only principle to be practiced between men and women and that they need each other, so "lording over" the woman has no place in their relationship.

He makes it clear that in the essence of being and nature, we are equals in the eyes of God.


This is a Godly ordained order to avoid the chaos of non-authoritative roles in the home and the church between men and women. Paul is teaching this doctrine to the corinthians as directly from Jesus himself. Should this teaching of Christ be discarded because our "sophisticated" culture disproves of it? Can we see the fruits of the denial of this principle in our society today? Should this principle be considered anathema because of how some may misuse or twist it to fit an ungodly carnal interpretation?

If we abide by the will of God, we have no shame and there are no inferiors, just different roles and functions in God's plan.

[jojajn]

Originally Posted by renriq02

Not to condemn is the proper interpretation

We are to judge who are the sheep and who are the wolves in sheep clothing
Not to condemn them but to distinguish who is who


Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Now, you call someone who would like all people to be treated with equal respect a wolf in sheep's clothing! The logic of fundamental Christians is often frightening!

[renriq02]

my point was to tell you that we are called to judge as a spiritual man judgeth ALL things

you misinterpreted the scriptures as it means to judge to CONDEMN not judge to DISCERN

Originally Posted by jojajn

Now, you call someone who would like all people to be treated with equal respect a wolf in sheep's clothing! The logic of fundamental Christians is often frightening!

[jojajn]

Originally Posted by renriq02

when a poster says not to follow God's commandments...

is that

1. Falling short
or
2. Challenging God's commands?

I do know that Jesus said not to judge one another. I do not know of Him saying that women should submit to their husbands. I think that judging would fall under the umbrella of falling short of God's commandments, correct?

[jojajn]

Originally Posted by NCyank

But what he posted about the cultural/historical treatment of women is true, christian or not. I know you don't appreciate any cultural relevance or context apparent in the Bible (you seem not to understand context of any kind) but that does not mean it is not real.

You do an awful lot of dismissing in this thread..deciding if what people think is Biblical or not, deciding if they are properly interpreting scripture, deciding if they are doing what the Bible says....according to only YOUR interpretation. Seriously, you've taken on quite a lot here....not only as high priest of your own household but also in this thread.

You say Christians can't really judge, but yet you are continually judgmental of those who have any opinion that differs from your own...as if you are the final authority.

I've known other such people IRL. People who have all the answers for everyone, who fully understand scripture and the all of the appropriate context, past and present, who aim to fulfull their role as head of the home using their vast knowledge and understanding. Their families are not usually very happy as they have a difficult time keeping up with the 'Godly' standards set out before them, expected and then judged by just one man, one flesh and blood man deciding if those around him are worthy according to his understanding of scripture because he is the head of the household. Very dangerous, I'm pretty sure that's not why God sent his only Son to die on the cross.....so some man could set himself up as high priest, interpreter of scripture, determining what is right rather than letting God deal with the hearts of those he feels he is charged with. But of course, they are all only following the Bible, as you are.

Not only that, people do not generally feel drawn to such a person for council or advice or help or comfort, especially if they are not Christians already. Who wants to be thumped over the head with a Bible and a list of commandments? People are looking for relationships, for meaning that goes deeper than Thou shalt or Thou shalt not. People don't want a priest or someone who knows it all (only to point out that the rest of us know very little), they want a friend who will pray with them, for them and point them towards God, who loved them enough to send His only begotten Son....so He could have a personal relationship with each one of us rather than priests and sacrifices that stood between. I don't get a sense that that is the kind of person you are, or you have not demonstrated such an attitude in your posts here.

Thank you!!! Best post I've ever read!!!!