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Wow! I didn't expect this must response on this topic. I was hoping that Godly women would understand what it means to submit, not in the sense, of doing what your husbands tell you to do like you are children, but to submit to him, if he's a Godly man in the sense that any decisions you two make together, if the decision (in some cases) falls on him, and solely on him, then do you allow him to make it without any fussing or fighting about it?
Regarding the husband teaching the wife. That is out dated material. (Like it or not the bible was written over a thousand years ago and much has changed since then). It makes sense for biblical times but not, necessarily, today.
In biblical times, women lived lives segregated from society. Men were out and about in the markets, courts and synagogs listening to debates, sermons and doing busness. They are the ones who had access to teachings moreso than women. Quite likely, any teaching a woman got was through her husband so a commandment to be taught by him makes sense.
Today women are educated, they have access to teaching materials via television, the internet and reading on their own. In fact, the tables are a bit turned today as a woman who is home with her children likely has more time for bible study than her husband.
I understand why the bible told women to learn in silence. It was because they really didin't have access to enough information to really do otherwise. If her husband taught her wrong, then it was his sin because she really had no way of knowing if what he taught was right or wrong as all she could do is compare notes with other wives while she drew water at the well and all of their information came filtered through their husbands. Today, we can get out own information. It's perfectly acceptable for us to teach ourselves, our children and, perhaps, our husbands if we are the ones with more information and time to study.
You really have to put things in context. Women's lives were very different from today back then and advice that made sense back then may not make sense today. Not that there aren't times it does. If my husband were a preacher or given to devout study of the scriptures I would defer to him unless I was just as devoutly studying and then I'd discuss things with him.
funny how the Word of God says that heaven and earth shall pass away but HIS WORDS WILL NOT.
might as well throw out the whole bible since EVERYTHING will be outdated.
God does not change...people change.
The bible determines our lifestyle...not our lifestyle determines the bible.
Just like today they accept homosexuality as not a sin...because the bible is 'outdated'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Regarding the husband teaching the wife. That is out dated material. (Like it or not the bible was written over a thousand years ago and much has changed since then). It makes sense for biblical times but not, necessarily, today.
In biblical times, women lived lives segregated from society. Men were out and about in the markets, courts and synagogs listening to debates, sermons and doing busness. They are the ones who had access to teachings moreso than women. Quite likely, any teaching a woman got was through her husband so a commandment to be taught by him makes sense.
Today women are educated, they have access to teaching materials via television, the internet and reading on their own. In fact, the tables are a bit turned today as a woman who is home with her children likely has more time for bible study than her husband.
I understand why the bible told women to learn in silence. It was because they really didin't have access to enough information to really do otherwise. If her husband taught her wrong, then it was his sin because she really had no way of knowing if what he taught was right or wrong as all she could do is compare notes with other wives while she drew water at the well and all of their information came filtered through their husbands. Today, we can get out own information. It's perfectly acceptable for us to teach ourselves, our children and, perhaps, our husbands if we are the ones with more information and time to study.
You really have to put things in context. Women's lives were very different from today back then and advice that made sense back then may not make sense today. Not that there aren't times it does. If my husband were a preacher or given to devout study of the scriptures I would defer to him unless I was just as devoutly studying and then I'd discuss things with him.
Yes, I obey my husband and I try to avoid arguing with him. Of course I don't always succeed...
Women, there is no way out of this one. I am pretty sure the Bible says that our husbands have control over us and we should honor and obey them. This kind of sucks, and may explain why I'm not as much of a diehard Christian as I used to be.
The bible instructs Christian women to dress modestly, avoid men's clothing and cover our heads in church. That was how I was brought up, and I believe all that stuff is still in the bible... We were not even allowed to wear pants because that's "masculine" clothing.
Anyway, my husband mentions occasionally that I should convert to Islam. Ha ha ha. Yeah right. I am already downtrodden enough, thank you very much. I am pretty much a Christian because that's how I was raised. If I had to pick, who knows what religion I would be. It would definitley not be Islam, though. You get 4 wives and I get. . . a headscarf! Obviously a religion created by a man.
I'm waiting for someone to invent a woman-centric religion.
funny how the Word of God says that heaven and earth shall pass away but HIS WORDS WILL NOT.
might as well throw out the whole bible since EVERYTHING will be outdated.
God does not change...people change.
The bible determines our lifestyle...not our lifestyle determines the bible.
Just like today they accept homosexuality as not a sin...because the bible is 'outdated'.
His word does not pass away. I never said it did. I said you need to consider the true circumstances under which it was written.
How about another example. The bible tells slaves to obey their masters yet we all know slavery is wrong. This is simply good advice if you happen to be a slave. If that's your lot, you're going to be a whole lot better off if you don't fight it than if you do. Plus, you may just win favor of your master. No one would take this to mean that slavery is right. We now know it is wrong. We know the true right thing to do is free the slaves....but, if you happen to be one, you're going to be better off obeying....
I don't live the life of a woman in biblical times. I'm not uneducated and I'm not isolated from society. My husband is not my only source of news and teaching as was the case for women in biblical times. This advice stands if it were but it's not. I am simply not in the position that the women who were given this advice are in. It still holds for women who are but I'm lucky enough that I'm not.
The word didn't change. It always applied to women who were isolated, uneducated and dependent on their husbands for their existence. That is simply not me. This advice is for someone in a different situation than me.
I'm not saying the word changes. I'm saying you have to consider the audience before deciding if it applies to you.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-07-2008 at 07:19 AM..
Yes, I obey my husband and I try to avoid arguing with him. Of course I don't always succeed...
Women, there is no way out of this one. I am pretty sure the Bible says that our husbands have control over us and we should honor and obey them. This kind of sucks, and may explain why I'm not as much of a diehard Christian as I used to be.
The bible instructs Christian women to dress modestly, avoid men's clothing and cover our heads in church. That was how I was brought up, and I believe all that stuff is still in the bible... We were not even allowed to wear pants because that's "masculine" clothing.
Anyway, my husband mentions occasionally that I should convert to Islam. Ha ha ha. Yeah right. I am already downtrodden enough, thank you very much. I am pretty much a Christian because that's how I was raised. If I had to pick, who knows what religion I would be. It would definitley not be Islam, though. You get 4 wives and I get. . . a headscarf! Obviously a religion created by a man.
I'm waiting for someone to invent a woman-centric religion.
Have you considered the context in which those passages were written?
When you start applying, historical, conext, sometimes it becomes apparent that passages were written for a particular situation. One you may not live in.
For example, it's no longer considered shameful to not cover your head so I don't. However, if I moved to a country where it was considered shameful and would be an offense to someone looking at me, I would comply. What we are not to be is stumbling blocks. If my dress or mannerism makes me one, I need to change that.
I agree on converting to Islam. Women are downtrodden enough. But if my husband were to decide to become a missionary to an islamc country, I'd be putting on a Bourke to avoid becomming a stumbling block.
I really think the bible is talking about honoring customs where defying them might be offensive. I wear blue jeans to church on Sunday. It 's acceptable where I attend. In fact, encouraged because we want people to feel that they can come as they are to God. However, if I were in a community that would find that offensive, I'd dress accordingly.
What the bible says is that in a day and age where women were considered property, uneducated, isolated from society and unable to support themselves, they fell under the control of their husbands. And they did. You really didn't have much choice back then and the passages aren't telling women to comply so much as they are telling men they are responsible because women were vulnerable. The bible also talks about both husbands and wives honoring and respecting each other. It is neither honoring or respecting me to control me.
I'm so glad I live in the Unitied States in the 21st century.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-07-2008 at 07:27 AM..
It's funny that God told Eve that Adam will rule over her....4,000 years later it is still the case with Paul.
Just 70-80 years things have changed, but it's not God's change.....
Today's society shows that a 'woman' can be the head of her 'husband'.
I wonder if that's what God wants....
It's funny that God told Eve that Adam will rule over her....4,000 years later it is still the case with Paul.
Just 70-80 years things have changed, but it's not God's change.....
Today's society shows that a 'woman' can be the head of her 'husband'.
I wonder if that's what God wants....
How true! It is man's idea on this that has changed, not God's.
I submit to my husband. It has gotten us in quite the pickle financially. lol Now I am the one that handles our budget. Why? I'm just better at it. I have more self-restraint.
My husband and I are a team. When one of us is better at something, they get to take the reigns.
Some get hung up on the word submit. If that is the case, try using the word honor. Try honoring your husband. Honoring and submitting go hand in hand.
Wow! I didn't expect this must response on this topic. I was hoping that Godly women would understand what it means to submit, not in the sense, of doing what your husbands tell you to do like you are children, but to submit to him, if he's a Godly man in the sense that any decisions you two make together, if the decision (in some cases) falls on him, and solely on him, then do you allow him to make it without any fussing or fighting about it?
Are you serious?! Children! Wow. I've never heard a guy say wives should behave like children.
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I am pretty much a Christian because that's how I was raised. If I had to pick, who knows what religion I would be. It would definitley not be Islam, though. You get 4 wives and I get. . . a headscarf! Obviously a religion created by a man. 
