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I think it is best left up to God on who is being Judged for their beliefs!
Sometimes I get so sick to my stomach when reading responses or questions regarding another person "faith" walk. What, that some council hundreds of years after the death of Jesus decided on how the label of "Christian" was to be defined? The Bible says that if you believe in God the Father, confess Jesus(His Son) as Lord, and believe in YOUR Heart that He died for your sins, confess them, REPENT from them, that YOU WILL BE SAVED.
Does it matter the "theology", or even the "religion"? Did Jesus start a religion, when His most condemning testimony was to the very religion of His people?
I see a ton of Pharisees today, all walking around in their "long robes" professing something they know very little about. Converting unbelievers to a belief that isn't on what Scriptures tell us it is, and then leaving them to their own demise wrought with sin!
Are we being LED by the TRUE Shepard? That IS the question after becoming a believer! If so, we would NOT be led into more sin, more carnality, and more of the sinful fleshly desires of this world. We would be LED in unison TO Father, through His Son.
WHAT MUST YOU DO IN ORDER TO BE SAVED, is the most simple question imaginable, but yet the answer is so complex, that even the geniuses of Theology cannot answer it for everyone. If they could, there would only be ONE CHURCH, with ONE CHRIST as LORD, and with ONE GOD. But there isn't, is there.
There are thousands ALL proclaiming the Truth, as THEY SEE IT. And it doesn't matter whether the church you "belong" to has the "first" foothold or not. We ALL are seeking Truth, and fellowship with like minded believers.
The OP asked the question as to whether I SEE Jehovah's Witnesses as Christians. My response would be LOOK IN YOUR OWN MIRROR, before casting ANY STONES!
No, they are not Christians, they are anti-christ. They have manipulated the Word of God in such a deceitful way..they have their own version of the Bible, which IS IN NO WAY THE SAME AS THE REAL ONE! In these last days, the greatest danger is deception...for God's very own people.
Originally posted by HotinAZ
Does it matter the "theology", or even the "religion"? Did Jesus start a religion, when His most condemning testimony was to the very religion of His people?
Correct belief is just as important as correct practice for the christian, otherwise you wouldn't see so much emphasis on correct teaching in the NT (Just look at Galatians and Colossians for starters)Theology is not just lofty speculation for proud pharisees--It is vitally necessary for a christian's understanding of God and for our daily walk with christ. Now for all the theology out there, the amount needed to have a good understanding of christ is actually pretty simple. It's laid out in all of the Bible, but for the sake of brevity it all boils down to the nicene creed. (Gotta love those church councils)
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the son With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen
This is, in sum, the mission statement of the christian faith. It is accepted as correct by all branches of historic christianity (Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox) as being representative of what is taught in the scriptures. Now, based on what I know about JW's and what I know about the NT, they are not christians. They may be good people, who follow some of Jesus' teachings, but not christians.
Correct belief is just as important as correct practice for the christian, otherwise you wouldn't see so much emphasis on correct teaching in the NT (Just look at Galatians and Colossians for starters)Theology is not just lofty speculation for proud pharisees--It is vitally necessary for a christian's understanding of God and for our daily walk with christ. Now for all the theology out there, the amount needed to have a good understanding of christ is actually pretty simple. It's laid out in all of the Bible, but for the sake of brevity it all boils down to the nicene creed. (Gotta love those church councils)
Actually it was "religion" that Paul was strongly against. In particualr the "Jewish" Mosaic Law which required the laws of fleshly works accompanied with that particualr belief. Also the Greek gods and goddesses sand the eating of meat sacrificed to idols.
If one religious denomiation had the correct practice, there would not be the divisions in the church today. Instead we see so many, and I suppose that is my point. What, a council 600 years after the death of Jesus decided what the standard was for Christianity? Not that I entirely disagree with them, but I notice they left their Roman empire entact when making it. The part that Christ's Kingdom "will have no end", should read Christ's Kingdom is here, now, and will forever be, without end. The "will now" makes it seem a distance in the future which is against what Jesus taught. The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. And we aren't talking holes, we are talking Crowns. He is my King, which means I belong to His Kingdom.
True theology is a personal relationship with Jesus, and our Father. Anything outside of that, is a works based religious theology. Why? Because is goes from a personal relationship, to a religion. And like I said, Jesus started no religion. He started a family.
If one religious denomiation had the correct practice, there would not be the divisions in the church today. Instead we see so many, and I suppose that is my point. What, a council 600 years after the death of Jesus decided what the standard was for Christianity?
I guess I don't see that much difference between denominations. Mennonites, Lutherans, Baptists and Methodists may be different, but when you get to the basic matters involving the personhood of christ, how salvation comes about, and the authority of the word, we are the same. And those are three of the most important things that christians need to agree on.
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What, a council 600 years after the death of Jesus decided what the standard was for Christianity?
The councils didn't decide beliefs, as much as codified what was already believed by the majority of the church. The majority of professed christians already believed in the trinity, but the council of Nicea made it official. Likewise, we didn't have an official NT canon until 391 (?) But we were all unofficially using todays new testament in our churches. The councils didn't decide, just made it official.
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True theology is a personal relationship with Jesus, and our Father. Anything outside of that, is a works based religious theology. Why? Because is goes from a personal relationship, to a religion. And like I said, Jesus started no religion. He started a family.
Mormons also say they have a personal relationship with Jesus. That doesn't make them christians.
Like I said, take a look at Paul's letters, in nearly every one he is rebuking some form of false teaching that has crept into the church by....correct teachings. The Galatians were caught up in works based theology, the Colossians in gnosticism, The Hebrews were thinking of going back to Judaism, and the Corinthians...well, they were in a whole other league. St. John warned about people who "went out from us, but were not of us" Even Jesus warned about false prophets. False prophets carry false teachings. I'm don't exactly love theology, but I do recognize that it's essential for me to know good teaching so as to guard myself from bad teaching.
Theology doesn't make christianity stagnant, when studied properly. It is how our minds treat that theology. Will we let it affect how we live, or will we store it up as nice facts to argue over? I would hope it affects how we treat the poor, how we witness, and how we worship God. And I'll say something else...every christian I've known who has rejected the pursuit of sound christian knowledge has fallen for false, or worse, heretical teaching. And the most dynamic, solid, kindest, christ loving christians were the ones who had a firm foundation in christian doctrine. To reject the need for good teaching is to go down a very dangerous path.
In my country, the Jehovah's witnesses (I heard) would put "Christian" as their religion in their ID card, but most Christians here do not acknowledge them as Christian. What do you think?
We do not worship the same Jesus, the central figure of Christianity. They are not Christians
The sad thing is...I am seeing a lot of other groups ,that call themself Christians, doing the same thing. (re: the sentences that I highlighted).
I don't know how I missed your response to my post. But the point I have been making about JWs since my mother in law is one, and my wife is swinging along the fence in regard to becoming a baptized JW is the fact that JWS make it their religion to tell anyone who's not a JW that we follow the teachings of man and not of Jehovah. I had a JW elder flat out tell me that my religion follows traditions and not accurate teachings of the bible. My question to you is, if we are all supposed to be followers of Christ, then why do we all have such a different view on who Jesus Christ is, and how we should follow him? My answer is that it goes to faith and how we all interpret the bible (reason we have so many different denonminations to fit all of our different personalities if we choose to be a Baptist, Catholic, Mormon, Methodist, or JW).
My answer is that it goes to faith and how we all interpret the bible (reason we have so many different denonminations to fit all of our different personalities if we choose to be a Baptist, Catholic, Mormon, Methodist, or JW).
Actually . . . here is a good time to repost HotinAz
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ
True theology is a personal relationship with Jesus, and our Father. Anything outside of that, is a works based religious theology. Why? Because is goes from a personal relationship, to a religion. And like I said, Jesus started no religion. He started a family.
Amen . . to all who live in Christ and the Father.
I think it is best left up to God on who is being Judged for their beliefs!
Sometimes I get so sick to my stomach when reading responses or questions regarding another person "faith" walk. What, that some council hundreds of years after the death of Jesus decided on how the label of "Christian" was to be defined? The Bible says that if you believe in God the Father, confess Jesus(His Son) as Lord, and believe in YOUR Heart that He died for your sins, confess them, REPENT from them, that YOU WILL BE SAVED.
Does it matter the "theology", or even the "religion"? Did Jesus start a religion, when His most condemning testimony was to the very religion of His people?
I see a ton of Pharisees today, all walking around in their "long robes" professing something they know very little about. Converting unbelievers to a belief that isn't on what Scriptures tell us it is, and then leaving them to their own demise wrought with sin!
Are we being LED by the TRUE Shepard? That IS the question after becoming a believer! If so, we would NOT be led into more sin, more carnality, and more of the sinful fleshly desires of this world. We would be LED in unison TO Father, through His Son.
WHAT MUST YOU DO IN ORDER TO BE SAVED, is the most simple question imaginable, but yet the answer is so complex, that even the geniuses of Theology cannot answer it for everyone. If they could, there would only be ONE CHURCH, with ONE CHRIST as LORD, and with ONE GOD. But there isn't, is there.
There are thousands ALL proclaiming the Truth, as THEY SEE IT. And it doesn't matter whether the church you "belong" to has the "first" foothold or not. We ALL are seeking Truth, and fellowship with like minded believers.
The OP asked the question as to whether I SEE Jehovah's Witnesses as Christians. My response would be LOOK IN YOUR OWN MIRROR, before casting ANY STONES!
Forgive me for my rant, but .
We Christians don't judge, they have been Judged by God already. All we are doing is relaying the warning. Christians who tell JW, mormons etc.... that they are not Christian and are in a cult are actually doing it out of love because they know where they will end up. It's the Christians who know where they will end up but don't want to rock the boat, don't want to tell the truth and end up copping out saying, I don't want to judge.
How is that love when you know where they will go but say nothing?
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