Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
For the sake of the OP and not turning this into a discussion on pre-trib or post-trib, I've been as subtle as I can be.
The dead in in Christ who rise first - is the first resurrection.
'The resurrection of dead Christians from throughout history.
(I actually have a slightly different interpretation - not effecting the gist of what I'm saying.)
We who are alive and remain, is speaking of Christians who survive to that point in time.
They do not taste death, but pass from life into life eternal - the "change".
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1Corinthians 15:51-53
The "we" who are changed, are the ones who are still alive at the time of the resurrection.
Then they ALSO also taken into the air.
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 1Thesalonians 4:17
The people NOT spoken of here, but in Luke 17, are the unsaved who stay on the earth. They will experience the wrath of God.
They cannot be resurrected, nor "raptured", because they are not born again and do not have the Holy Spirit -He who raises the dead and gives life to the living.
Please explain to me where the good folks are taken away. The reason I have used the terms good and bad people may be an over simplification, but as I understand it, Noah and his family (good people) were left and the bad folks were taken away. After Sodom and Gommorah burned, Lot and his daughters were left and the bad folks were taken away.
So please explain how Luke 17 describes that the non-believers or non-Christians are going to be left? You will find I have a very open mind if you provide a cogent argument.
Alright folks, when you figure it all out, who's taken away and who is staying, would you please let me know? I've got to either buy running shoes or build wings....
Please explain to me where the good folks are taken away. The reason I have used the terms good and bad people may be an over simplification, but as I understand it, Noah and his family (good people) were left and the bad folks were taken away. After Sodom and Gommorah burned, Lot and his daughters were left and the bad folks were taken away.
So please explain how Luke 17 describes that the non-believers or non-Christians are going to be left? You will find I have a very open mind if you provide a cogent argument.
This should all be done in another thread, as it is way off topic.
Perhaps I can sneek it I here, but if you want to discuss it further, please create a new thread here in the sheep pen.
I’ll probably find it... or you can PM me.
I attempted to answer your other questions to I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA, as well.
Actually Noah was taken away by the Ark and Lot left town.
Those who remained were destroyed.
But those who “remain” in Thessalonians are Christians – who somehow managed not to get killed for their faith and did not receive the mark nor deny Jesus.
When Paul said “we who are alive and remain”, he was speaking to Christians and so “we” means Christians.
There are actually two resurrections written of in Revelation 20.
The first one, “the resurrection of the just”, happens and then those remaining Christians are changed.
All of them leave to be with Christ.
When the bowls of wrath are finished being poured out on the unbelievers on the earth, Jesus returns to earth.
He defends Jerusalem from the attacking armies – destroying them.
Then He sets up His kingdom for 1000 years, during which time, Satan is locked up and unable to lead people astray or cause temptation and undue distraction.
Then there is the second resurrection.
Everyone who's not already resurrected will be raised and then there is the judgment for everyone.
Those with their names in the book of life (believers), will not be thrown into the lake of fire.
Now the resurrection cause one to have a physical body, but it is not quite like the body we have now.
It will not get sick or grow old and there may be other things we can do like pass through walls or teleport or some such.
The reason we gain a physical body is that after the judgment, God will do away with the old world and old cosmos and create a new physical reality with a new earth and new cosmos.
Perhaps even some of the laws physics and biology will be different.
And so with new bodies, we can enjoy a new world – one never corrupted by Satan and sin or even pollution.
Christians who die before the resurrection go to paradise (heaven), but they lack physical bodies.
I stand corrected on what the "dead in Christ" means. I think your position is correct. I got my position from another Website without doing the proper research. That's why it's so dangerous to believe everything your read.
HOWEVER, It says nothing about a non-believer. It says:
1 Thes. 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
I am just seeing the qualifications of being alive and remaining with no other qualifications. Nothing about believing or not believing.
The question is, where does the judgement part come in. Isn't it when we meet him in the clouds? I assume this is where the non-believers get dispatched. And the dead folks, I assume those folks in hell won't be coming for the ride. In addition, the good folks, if not already in heaven, where have they been? Is this the case of their bodies just joining their souls?
I have many questions. Catholic don't emphasize on end times or Revelation because we figure if we do all the right things, the system will take care of itself.
Actually it does say Christians, if you read the verse before that, verse 16-17 "For the Lord Himself will come down from Heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with trumpet call of God. First all the Christians who have died will rise from the graves. Then together with them, we who are still alive and remain on earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with Him forever".
Read 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 again. The folks "dead in Christ" get taken first leaving those who are alive. The folks LEFT will be meet the Lord in the clouds. Again, the good folks are left behind. Jeez, read it folks.
16. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Example: My mother, who died several weeks ago, for example saints of long ago, for example my neighbor, for example, my uncle who passed several years ago, for example any innocent child, for example someone any one may know, whether they were a mom, brother, sister, cousin, co-worker, pastor, teacher, nurse, doctor, lawyer, etc, etc............................................... ............ The common denominator is: Pay attention here: All have accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord. All have believed that Jesus is Lord of All. All have confessed that that Jesus was made flesh, walked among men, was crucified and has risen again, has paid the penalty for their sins. These are the ones who rise first! 17. Then we who are alive and remain (again the common denominator, believers of Christ Jesus) shall be caught up together with them (the risen dead) in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18. Therefore comfort one another with these words. Then it goes on to say below in the 5th chapter: 1. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, (common denominator, believers) you have no need that I write you. 2. For you (me, any believer in Christ Jesus) yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3. For when they say "Peace and safety" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4. But you, brethren (common denominator, believers), are not in darkness, (we know the truth) so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. (truth, believers in Jesus Christ, the Bright Morning Star). We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6. Therefore let us not sleep (let us not die in our ignorance, as unbelievers), as other do, but let us watch and be sober. (Remain faithful to the end). Hope this helps. You must be a believer and fully trust in God's Holy Words. Believe all of it or believe not of it. Not bits and pieces here and there and discard the rest. Totally dependent on Him. Truth, which is His very nature, will be revealed to you. Your sister in Christ Jesus
Last edited by Betsey Lane; 11-25-2008 at 03:26 PM..
That is quite a thought to find one would be left here....I would search the scriptures and ask God to show me his ways. I think I would feel surprised since I have security that I am saved through Christ's death on the cross to pay for my sins. But I think I would fall on my face and ask God to show me what I need to learn. I world be torn apart to my core feeling like there was something I did not do or didn't understand.
With all that been said.............................................. .....................................someone asked, "Is this an "imaginary thread"? Yes it is! With a purpose though.
For believers the 'intent' was to make us, me, you, take stock of ourselves.
For the unbelievers, "step out of the box" of unbelief for a moment.
It happened, tonight! All that you have been told/warned about! (unbelievers)
It happened, tonight! All that we were so "sure" about! Some of us are still here! ((believers)
Those who's going to be left behind, wanna find a meeting place? Bring some snacks, beers, etc?? I think we need to start planning, apparently it's coming soon....
All of the above, maybe except for the beer. You getting there though. Keep seeking.
You will need to be sober like never before and hopefully you'll be too consume by the Holy Spirit, if not now, but especially then, to want none other. By the way, while we are on the topic of beer and the Holy Spirit, which one take precedence in your life now? Just curious.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
..I would search the scriptures and ask God to show me his ways. I think I would feel surprised since I have security that I am saved through Christ's death on the cross to pay for my sins. But I think I would fall on my face and ask God to show me what I need to learn.
I world be torn apart to my core feeling like there was something I did not do or didn't understand.
