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Interesting point. I've never seen this (valid) viewpoint before... that "this generation" was simply referring to "the generation that shall see these things" rather than "the current generation".
And the point is they did see those things on time. Everything else would fall apart such as who was being judged which was excruciatingly clear was the generation that rejected Jesus.
Who killed Jesus? Anyone alive today?
1 Thessolonians 2
13 For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe. 14 For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men, 16 forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.
Tacitus book 5 histories
[SIZE=4]13[/SIZE]. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the Orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world. This mysterious prophecy really referred to Vespasian and Titus, but the common people, true to the selfish ambitions of mankind, thought that this mighty destiny was reserved for them, and not even their calamities opened their eyes to the truth.
"There are many different interpretations of Revelation, and we should note that no single interpretation is sealed by an "etching" of God; however, remain open to the Spirit and seek the unveiling or revelation of Christ Himself. "For it is in Him, and Him alone, that men will find all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." (Col. 2:3, Philips Translation). "
"There are many different interpretations of Revelation, and we should note that no single interpretation is sealed by an "etching" of God; however, remain open to the Spirit and seek the unveiling or revelation of Christ Himself. "For it is in Him, and Him alone, that men will find all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." (Col. 2:3, Philips Translation). "
Ding ding ding. There are many things dancing around in peoples heads. What is a good meal? Could be anything based on taste. The one thing we can have right is time. How about a good meal at 8:00? That is not subject to interpretation. If one read the bible and never looked up they would see the vast measure of it being fulfilled. People look around to see if there is apostasy today when they should put their nose in the book of Jude and not look up until they do. But they don't and want to see it the way they dream it will be.
So are atheists, liberals, Jewish skeptics, Muslims, and Fiction writers.
Quote:
But again, what does this have to do with my original post? Perhaps you should check out the Religion and Philosophy threads?
You are welcome here, but I would ask that you help us remain on topic. Thank you. Preterist
Let's see . . . you quote Atheists, Liberals, Jewish skeptics, Muslims, and Fiction writers (C.S. Lewis) in your OP . . . but citing science in support of the opposing interpretation is off topic? Yet you would imply Jesus lied by taking quotes out of context from Matthew . . The full context:
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?[/quote] If Jesus was already there . . . why would he be coming? Jesus is clearly going to be talking about the end times . . . not contemporary events.
Quote:
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
As it happens science also validates this prediction in Matthew 29 as well . . . and none of it is off topic . . . it is directly relevant to your attempt to imply Jesus lied. The end times are yet to come . . . and that is what Jesus was talking about . . . and even he admitted not knowing when that would be.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 11-26-2008 at 03:29 PM..
And the point is they did see those things on time. Everything else would fall apart such as who was being judged which was excruciatingly clear was the generation that rejected Jesus.
Who killed Jesus? Anyone alive today?
1 Thessolonians 2
13 For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe. 14 For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men, 16 forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.
Tacitus book 5 histories
[SIZE=4]13[/SIZE]. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the Orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world. This mysterious prophecy really referred to Vespasian and Titus, but the common people, true to the selfish ambitions of mankind, thought that this mighty destiny was reserved for them, and not even their calamities opened their eyes to the truth.
Who killed Jesus? Anyone alive today? You want a different spin on it? You and everyone who is alive that is still sinning,"TODAY"! You who want to continuously profane His name with such nonsense, that He is here already, all things have been fulfilled?
Do you not believe that He still feel the nails, every time you sin? Every time you fail to believe in Him and His Holy Words without tampering with them? So much so, someone desperately and earnestly seeking to find the truth might come across this deceiving doctrine of demons and fall for it?
And if Jesus came ALREADY, why is there SIN still in the world? Why? Because He's of the world, but not of It? He came already, remember? What happened? He did'nt do a "good enough" job? He forgot something? In all your knowledge, get understanding. It does'nt
make sense NOW or will it EVER!!
Don't you think it's time to put aside your fables and trust in the Words of God 100%? Cause the time is NEAR you know!
So are atheists, liberals, Jewish skeptics, Muslims, and Fiction writers.Let's see . . . you quote Atheists, Liberals, Jewish skeptics, Muslims, and Fiction writers (C.S. Lewis) in your OP . . . but citing science in support of the opposing interpretation is off topic? Yet you would imply Jesus lied by taking quotes out of context from Matthew . . The full context:
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? If Jesus was already there . . . why would he be coming? Jesus is clearly going to be talking about the end times . . . not contemporary events. As it happens science also validates this prediction in Matthew 29 as well . . . and none of it is off topic . . . it is directly relevant to your attempt to imply Jesus lied. the end times are yet to come . . . and that is what Jesus was talking about . . . and even he admitted not knowing when that would be .
Hi MysticPhD,
That was the end times. Not surprising because the 70 sevens of Daniel 9 was up. That was when Daniel was told exactly when they would be.
Hebrews 9
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Here it says the end of the ages was when Christ had appeared to them thus the contemporary time was one and the same with the end times or as another poster said the authors of the scriptures did not know how to write.
Who killed Jesus? Anyone alive today? You want a different spin on it? You and everyone who is alive that is still sinning,"TODAY"! You who want to continuously profane His name with such nonsense, that He is here already, all things have been fulfilled?
Hi Betsey Lane,
" just as they did from the Judeans, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets,"
You are refuting the scripture as fables, not me. What you just said as anyone can see has nothing to do with what Paul is saying. It could be no clearer or precise. This is why people laugh at Christianity.
Quote:
Do you not believe that He still feel the nails, every time you sin? Every time you fail to believe in Him and His Holy Words without tampering with them? So much so, someone desperately and earnestly seeking to find the truth might come across this deceiving doctrine of demons and fall for it?
Why would I believe in that made up doctrine against scripture? I think I will stick with the once and for all seen in the scriptures.
Hebrews 10
Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, andofferings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasurein them ” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.”[b] He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ oncefor all.
This continuous sacrifice is obsolete
Quote:
And if Jesus came ALREADY, why is there SIN still in the world? Why because He's of the world, but not of It? He came already to do away with sin once and for all! What happen? He did'nt do a "good enough" job? He forgot something? In all your knowledge, get understanding. It does'nt
make sense!!
Where did it say there will be no sin on earth? Matthew 13 shows weeds growing with the grain until harvest.
Quote:
Don't you think it's time to put aside your fables and trust in the Words of God 100%? Cause the time is NEAR you know!
You did not post a single scripture to support your arguments....fabulous.
"There are many different interpretations of Revelation, and we should note that no single interpretation is sealed by an "etching" of God; however, remain open to the Spirit and seek the unveiling or revelation of Christ Himself. "For it is in Him, and Him alone, that men will find all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." (Col. 2:3, Philips Translation). "
Ding ding ding. There are many things dancing around in peoples heads. What is a good meal? Could be anything based on taste. The one thing we can have right is time. How about a good meal at 8:00? That is not subject to interpretation. If one read the bible and never looked up they would see the vast measure of it being fulfilled. People look around to see if there is apostasy today when they should put their nose in the book of Jude and not look up until they do. But they don't and want to see it the way they dream it will be.
Gwyn, I think the "seeking" Prinzing was referring to was to "look up", and ask of Him to fill us with Himself - who is our wisdom to discern scripture and prophecy.
I do agree with Mystic. This world as we know it will probably come to an end someday but that could be eleventy billion years from now or next week. Anyone with some observation will realize that the chaotic universe around us will someday probably bring some chaos our way and give us one big cosmic enema. After all, scars all over the earth shows we have been slapped upside the head before.
You don't have to be a bible scholar or need the Bible to make these predictions. The Bible prophecies are the same old prophecies of mayhem other cultures have been spouting since whenever and they might someday be proven right.
Gwyn, I think the "seeking" Prinzing was referring to was to "look up", and ask of Him to fill us with Himself - who is our wisdom to discern scripture and prophecy.
I think Paul said:
2 Timothy 3
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
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