Why do Christians vote Republican? (evolution, recall, conservative, America)
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I agree! I don't vote straight party ticket, but there is not one living Republican left in politics who hasn't gone over the cliff with crazy talk, greed and corruption. The latest worst thing I heard coming from the right was last week when Rush Limbaugh was complaining about the Summer School Free or Reduced Lunch Program for poor children. He suggested that they should "dumpster dive" for food if they don't have enough at home to eat. This advice from the mouth of a pig? Glen Beck... don't get me started - the man is a raving lunatic. The right wing is gone stark raving mad. Jesus was put outside the current "church" a long time ago. Not the true/invisible church, mind you, but that woman on every corner dripping with earthly wealth.
Stark raving mad. Yes, some of them have taken a terrible dive off the deep end.
I used to listen to some of these guys, but after awhile, I felt like Alice. Well, that's pretty much how I feel anyway, but especially so in right wing company.
I think it was Franz I, Emperor of Austria, who said in a speech in 1820 before shuffling offstage, "totus mundus stultizat." Translation: The whole world is growing stupid.
Ah, nice try. They were struck down because they voluntarily said they would sell all and when Peter asked them if that was all the answer was yes. But he knew that they lied to God and Peter, that is why they were struck down. Good try though! :-)
You are correct that they lied, but I'm still comfortable with my interpretation. You may stick with yours if you like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi
Unfortunately, they way it is now it is up to the majority to decide and not individuals or communal groups.
If you get your way and 51% of the people dictate to the other 49% how much they MUST pay, what happens to those who refuse to pay? Do you send threatening letters, try and attach assets, send armed agents to their door, arrest them, or kill them if they resist?
I'm still confused. Are you just opposed to majority rule or democracy in general? For the record, we live in a representative democracy, not necessarily one where the majority decides. In fact, individuals or groups... (you used the word "communal" which implies a commune which implies shared ownership of property. Did you mean "community groups"?) Anyway, individuals or groups, if funded well enough, DO have tremendous power to influence decisions of our elected leaders, sometimes over and against the interests of the majority. That is why I find "personhood" of corporations and the recent Supreme Court decision to allow corporations to lobby and make campaign contributions so disturbing.
But yes, if there are individuals in our communities who are not following the laws of our community, be it driving on the wrong side of the road, breaking into houses, or not paying taxes they are assessed, then they should be subject to the consequences established by the law, whatever they are. Much as God did when Ananias and Sapphira failed to contribute the proceeds of their land deal AND lied about it. (Notwithstanding that there are plenty of problems with the adequacy of justice in our legal and judicial system, but that is probably for another thread.)
You are correct that they lied, but I'm still comfortable with my interpretation. You may stick with yours if you like. .
The only problem is your interpretation gives you God given authority to use physical force against me to bring about your goals. History is full of people believing they have God given authority to force people to comply with their goals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmalltownKSgirl
I'm still confused. Are you just opposed to majority rule or democracy in general? For the record, we live in a representative democracy, not necessarily one where the majority decides. In fact, individuals or groups... (you used the word "communal" which implies a commune which implies shared ownership of property. Did you mean "community groups"?) Anyway, individuals or groups, if funded well enough, DO have tremendous power to influence decisions of our elected leaders, sometimes over and against the interests of the majority. That is why I find "personhood" of corporations and the recent Supreme Court decision to allow corporations to lobby and make campaign contributions so disturbing.
I am very much against majority rule (two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner) I am for the rights of the individual. We are actually a representative republic with a constitution that provides rights for the individual. Democracy is not mentioned in any founding documents.
Communal or community, I am for both I love voluntary communal associations, the key word is voluntary. If we looked more to voluntary associations we would be much better off. As it is now most people try and get the government to force the minority to fund their desires as opposed to creating voluntary groups to take care of a need.
When government gets involved in voluntary associations we have problems. Government created corporate charters and then gave them personhood, this was a mistake, government should only document a charter exists, not give it limited liability, power and rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmalltownKSgirl
But yes, if there are individuals in our communities who are not following the laws of our community, be it driving on the wrong side of the road, breaking into houses, or not paying taxes they are assessed, then they should be subject to the consequences established by the law, whatever they are. Much as God did when Ananias and Sapphira failed to contribute the proceeds of their land deal AND lied about it. (Notwithstanding that there are plenty of problems with the adequacy of justice in our legal and judicial system, but that is probably for another thread.)
I agree when people use force they should be dealt with but the problems happen when we start to create laws such as forced taxation, prohibitions etc. you turn peaceful people into criminals unless they follow the majorities dictate. Just like those who helped run-a-way slaves in the north, they were criminals. I guess since it was the law of the majority jailing them was appropriate correct?
Taxes should be levied on government granted monopoly, not on individual productivity.
I'm Christian and I do not vote Republican. During the election, the fervor over Obama's remark to the effect that it was good to "spread the wealth around" really depressed me. Republicans went a little bit nuts over the communist/socialist implications. It seemed like everywhere I turned the Marxist quote “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” and the phrase "redistribution of wealth" were being thrown around by people with straight faces. I'm still hearing it in the extremely conservative red state I live in.
But, when I heard Obama's remark, I did not think of Karl Marx. I thought of Jesus. I thought of the Book of Acts, which says: "All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need."
It is a mystery to me how a nation that calls itself Christian can react with so much visceral anger to a remark that echos the Gospel I personally hold dear. Now Glen Beck is actually encouraging people to leave churches that talk about economic or social justice because those are code words for "communism". I should leave my church for encouraging me to live as the apostles did????
I vote Democrat.
Great post! I too am a member of one of those evil churches that supports social justice And a former Kansan!
I agree! I don't vote straight party ticket, but there is not one living Republican left in politics who hasn't gone over the cliff with crazy talk, greed and corruption. The latest worst thing I heard coming from the right was last week when Rush Limbaugh was complaining about the Summer School Free or Reduced Lunch Program for poor children. He suggested that they should "dumpster dive" for food if they don't have enough at home to eat. This advice from the mouth of a pig? Glen Beck... don't get me started - the man is a raving lunatic. The right wing is gone stark raving mad. Jesus was put outside the current "church" a long time ago. Not the true/invisible church, mind you, but that woman on every corner dripping with earthly wealth.
Yes,you can say THAT again!!
and what about fundies who sell out their family,like the Duggars?? It should be of no surprise,really.Mr D. was a state legislator for awhile...typical politician.or should I say republican...just slap the word God and conservative on it and 'it's all good'.
The only problem is your interpretation gives you God given authority to use physical force against me to bring about your goals. History is full of people believing they have God given authority to force people to comply with their goals.
Wow! That's so... way out of line.
Well, we obviously have a different point of view. I'll go my way, you go yours. Thanks anyway!
Well, we obviously have a different point of view. I'll go my way, you go yours. Thanks anyway!
Out of line? How? I said nothing against you. It is sad how when many are confronted with the reality of their positions they run away from discussion.
Just once I would love to hear an articulate reply to my points.
Good luck.
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And a former Kansan!