Christmas/Easter - is the whole tradition Christian?

[Theliberalvoice]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

When did a Wiccan virgin conceive and bear forth God in the flesh? That's a new one on me.

When did a Wiccan die on a cross and rise forth from the grave leaving my sins and your sins buried so we don't have to carry the penalty for them anymore? Again, something I never heard before.

Now the Easter Bunny and Easter Eggs do have their root in fertility rites that have been rituals of many pagan religions connected with spring and a new planting/mating season. As most cultures throughout history prior to the last hundred years or so were primarily agrarian, this is to be expected. Baal worship in the Old Testament centered around fertility rites, thus the temple prostitutes and such and why Baal worship was clearly prohibited for the Israelites. New Testament writers also dealt with Greek temple worship that played to these themes as well.

Sorry, Wicca doesn't have the corner on this practice or invent it. It's been around as long as man as been around.

When has ANY virgin given birth? Now, THATS news to me.

Ok, if someone died for my sins like you said Jesus did, then why aren't we all in Heaven?

And yes, it was stolen from Wiccans. Stop being in Denial. "Christmas" is actually Yuletide. It was just taken over to make Christianity more dominant. So I would re-read history if I were you.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by Theliberalvoice

When has ANY virgin given birth? Now, THATS news to me.

Ok, if someone died for my sins like you said Jesus did, then why aren't we all in Heaven?

And yes, it was stolen from Wiccans. Stop being in Denial. "Christmas" is actually Yuletide. It was just taken over to make Christianity more dominant. So I would re-read history if I were you.

Well, because we are still living on this earth.

OK, I will accept that you meant why don't all go to heaven after this life. Simple:

Because they reject the premise, refuse the gift.

As for the pagan aspects that got merged in with Christian traditions, granted, they are there. But the God celebrated in these traditions is NOT a panoply of pagan deities, but the Lord and Father of Jesus Christ. The use of traditional festivals associated with the winter solstice were brought together with the celebration of Christmas.

No biblical student believes that Jesus was born on the 25th of December. A lot of the traditions have nothing to do with the biblical narrative of Jesus' birth. Different countries have their own traditions. But the reason for it all is the glory and celebration of Emmanuel, God with us.

Lib, Jesus is wooing you. You can make shocking statements that you think will freak me out, go ahead. But you continue to come to the Christian thread to set us all straight and poke holes in what we believe. But Jesus is alive and is drawing you, calling out to you. That is why I believe you come to this thread.

[MysticPhD]

“Easter” has its roots in ancient polytheistic religions (paganism). On this, all scholars agree. This name is never used in the original Scriptures, nor is it ever associated biblically with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. For these reasons, many prefer to use the term "Resurrection Sunday" rather than "Easter" when referring to the annual Christian remembrance of Christ's resurrection.

The truly gory and heinous details of its heritage trace back to just after the flood with Nimrod's wife Semiramis . . . but best we leave it at that. What is relevant is what it means, TODAY in modern society . . . and yes, even in relatively benign modern Wiccan rites.

[ShanaBrown]

Christmas is one of the best times for Christians to have a witness. The vast majority of Americans celebrate Christmas and an opportunity to explain Emmanuel, God with us, God come to earth to save us, the whole reason behind the season is one of my favorite aspects of this season.

I agree. God bless.

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

Christmas is one of the best times for Christians to have a witness. The vast majority of Americans celebrate Christmas and an opportunity to explain Emmanuel, God with us, God come to earth to save us, the whole reason behind the season is one of my favorite aspects of this season.

Some Christians want to so separate themselves in outward forms of holiness that they make themselves no earthly good. Of course there are a lot of misconceptions about Christmas. That is where we have an opportunity to witness. The real story is not so romantic, but it is power and glory come to earth. A true telling of Christmas must end with the Easter story, because Jesus came and was born in the lowliest of places, to be the least among us to go to the cross to die for us.

I really don't care if you don't give presents, or do the lights and tree and all that because it isn't "scriptural." However, doing so and eschewing the cultural aspects of Christmas to strive for an outward holiness is missing the point. I believe God would have us use this time when non Christians hearts are open to the message perhaps more than any other time of year to spread his love and his message. Being so "holy" that you don't celebrate Christmas diminishes your witness, imo.

Be in the world but not of it. Enjoy all the trimmings that go with Christmas, but worship the Lord for who he is, don't make an idol out of the secondary things and you will be OK. Go a step further and use this season to speak to someone about the meaning of Christmas and how this Jesus that was born is still alive, and is still birthed in lowly, dirty places, the stable of men's hearts.

Well said!!!! I agree.

[mackinac81]

Originally posted by Saintmarks
Christmas is one of the best times for Christians to have a witness. The vast majority of Americans celebrate Christmas and an opportunity to explain Emmanuel, God with us, God come to earth to save us, the whole reason behind the season is one of my favorite aspects of this season.

Some Christians want to so separate themselves in outward forms of holiness that they make themselves no earthly good. Of course there are a lot of misconceptions about Christmas. That is where we have an opportunity to witness. The real story is not so romantic, but it is power and glory come to earth. A true telling of Christmas must end with the Easter story, because Jesus came and was born in the lowliest of places, to be the least among us to go to the cross to die for us.

I really don't care if you don't give presents, or do the lights and tree and all that because it isn't "scriptural." However, doing so and eschewing the cultural aspects of Christmas to strive for an outward holiness is missing the point. I believe God would have us use this time when non Christians hearts are open to the message perhaps more than any other time of year to spread his love and his message. Being so "holy" that you don't celebrate Christmas diminishes your witness, imo.

Be in the world but not of it. Enjoy all the trimmings that go with Christmas, but worship the Lord for who he is, don't make an idol out of the secondary things and you will be OK. Go a step further and use this season to speak to someone about the meaning of Christmas and how this Jesus that was born is still alive, and is still birthed in lowly, dirty places, the stable of men's hearts.

I completely agree Saintmarks. This year I decided to observe Advent in addition to christmas. Keeping my mind on Christ's birth has made it easier to discsuss him and the meaning of christmas to co-workers and others. So December 25th was also the day of saturnalia (Holiday honoring Saturn) in the Roman Calendar. So what? Now we celebrate his birth on that day, and no one knows who Saturnalia is anyway.

And my wreaths candles and trees are just too awesome to get rid of just because they were also used by nordic pagans. Maybe they just had good decorating sense.

Likewise for Easter. While I don't do the Easter Bunny and eggs and whatnot, I don't get picky about what to call easter. Just celebrate the Lord's resurrection. Go to church, have some ham and rejoice! If the Lord moves you, observe lent and Holy week as well. But keep your focus on Jesus, because that's what he really cares for.

[MargoKey]

Christmas began as a pagan ceremony celebrating Saturnalia and the Winter Solstice. Since the birth of Christ is believed to be anywhere from June to September, it's very unlikely that at any time prior to "Christmas," as we know it, was celebrated by early Christians. Christmas wasn't a "holiday" until the late 1700's and wasn't a US federal holiday until 1870. In fact, in the early colonies, to celebrate Christmas was illegal.

Easter is the pagan celebration of the vernal equinox -- the spring -- and the celebration of a new beginning. It is named after the goddess "Eostre."

Neither Christmas nor Easter has "been around as long as man has been around." They also were not stolen from Wiccans, since Wicca (the religion) has only been around since the 1950's.