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Old 12-08-2008, 04:37 PM
 
12,382 posts, read 14,669,250 times
Reputation: 14578
Ajeck, maybe you are relying on the things man has been telling you about what you should and shouldn't do? Maybe He is nudging you a little? In a way, I think I can relate to how you are feeling..I didn't want NOT to believe, but what religion was telling me I HAD to believe just left a huge hole in my soul..In desperation to know, I did what I should have done years ago..I tearfully and humbly and sincerely prayed that this Holy spirit that Jesus promised would come awake inside me and be my comfortor, my teacher and my "change of heart" and to first cleanse my mind of all manmade teachings and to lead me through scripture that would restore my faith and give me peace..It took patience, it took prayer, it took "giving up giving in" to family members religions.. but it worked
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Old 12-08-2008, 04:44 PM
 
8,990 posts, read 8,558,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
your kidding... right?
Nope serious as a heart attack! Bible backs me up
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Old 12-08-2008, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 4,171,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Nope serious as a heart attack! Bible backs me up

oooh.... kay


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Old 12-08-2008, 04:55 PM
 
3,552 posts, read 2,883,001 times
Reputation: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Nope serious as a heart attack! Bible backs me up
Repentance is a journey that takes some a lifetime to achieve. I don't know of any "perfect" people so I would only assume this is how you are as well? To be repentant you must have Understanding and Knowledge, for this is what this word means. "With understanding", you turn around, and have a change of heart for the wrongs in our lives against our fellow mankind, and against God.
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Old 12-08-2008, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Central US
852 posts, read 807,431 times
Reputation: 452
Default dm me if you like

Ajeck,
I can absolutely provide the "proof" in God. If you would like you can dm me and I will tell you. My "proof" involves dreams. However, you should know that I am not a "crazy person" and at one time I was right where you are. I own 3 businesses, have a farm, three children, husband and all the regular stuff that people have. It is hard to get across that i am absolutely telling the truth through this forum...especially with people who don't know me in person. You can find some of these dreams on this forum if you look way back into my posts. I was made fun of so much here that I quit posting them here. It was not I who realized what these dreams were until people starting telling me that not everyone--hardly anyone as a matter of fact--have them. For many years I couldn't explain why what I would dream would come true at a later time--right down to the details---I just knew that it happened. And there can only be one reason-God....It is not explained any other way..even through science or medicine. Believe me, I looked long and hard before accepting that there was only one way they could be happening. Science has explained away deja vu'. But years ago while I was trying to figure out a scientific reason for these dreams, I found none. And i spent much money and time looking.
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:05 PM
 
3,552 posts, read 2,883,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajeck View Post
Before I get into the main topic, I suppose a little background is needed.

Pretty much every member of my family is a Christian. My parents raised me as a Roman Catholic and my uncle is Pastor at a Protestant Church. So all my life I was surrounded by those who believed in a Christian God. Before going to college, I honestly felt like I had some sort of relationship with God. I prayed everyday, went to Church essentially every Sunday, took part in youth groups, etc.

However, during the past few years I have begun seriously doubting my faith. I've spent the last year or two trying to resolve these doubts (reading apologetic, taking philosophy of religion, being part of the Christian community at my school, praying for an answer) yet with each attempt it seems to be getting worse. I understand that some will probably say "this may be a time to test and strengthen your faith" or "maybe you did not have faith originally"; however, I really do not find solace in such responses if that's all they have to offer.

I believe the main problem is that because I was raised in a Christian environment I was not presented with any alternative. Now that I am in a more "eclectic" one, I am allowed to entertain alternative views. Like many Christians I used to strongly believe that "Jesus was the only way"; yet, this same type of sincerity can be found in other faiths. Since I try to the best of my ability not to be a dense or naive person, I can no longer just simply say "well that belief is wrong." What makes them wrong and what makes Christians right?

The one thing I am truely aware of is a being's capacity to deceive oneself. I don't want to say I believe because the purely Bible says it to be true; just because one believes something doesn't make it any more true. If that was the only reason I would be essentially "tricking" myself into having faith; more specifically blind faith. I can also see this happening to individuals who practice other faiths.

I still go to Church regularly, however if this doubt continues, I can see myself becoming a "fake" or "dead" Christian as I would continue to go just be because it "makes me feel good" or "I should go just because."

I know that there are others out there that have had similar experiences; as I know what I am going through is most likely not unique, and would like to hear from them. However I ask... Please, do not just post scripture and tell me to take it at face value... it is not helpful.

Also, if there are any questions feel free to ask and I will try to answer them.
I was a "dead" Christian for many years. Having once said a prayer, I then fell to sin, and destruction. I would argue with the bible thumpers, and the atheists alike. I did this for about 15 or 20 years. But the remarkable thing is, God never gives up on those who are His. I will admit, the bible made little sense to me, but I was reading it from a literal standpoint, instead of a love letter, or a map to the Kingdom of Christ, which is not "of" this world. Now I see the remarkable, instead of the insane. I see the Truth, instead of the parable. And Jesus is our guide, our Sheperd, and no one, not even the bible, can replace Him who sits on the throne..

An interesting quote thhat made so much sense, at least to me, because this is how I see the Bible..taken from Darin Hufford

Quote:
It's interesting to me that we tell people that the way they get close to God is by reading their Bible regularly. The Pharisees not only did this, but they went on to memorize large portions of Scripture and even wore articles of clothing to remind them daily of what they had read. However, when God stood right in front of them in the flesh, they didn't recognize Him from Adam. Jesus later told the people that the two most important commandments were to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul" and He said "the second commandment is like the first………Love your neighbor as yourself". Then he said, "All of the law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments". He was literally saying that if you love, you will BECOME the Bible! You can put it down and walk away from it forever because LOVE is the embodiment of the entire Bible. Once again: the purpose of the Bible is to lead us to Christ. Who is Christ? Love in the flesh!

I do not need a "post it note" on my refrigerator reminding me not to murder my wife and kids. Why? Because I love them and that law is so far beneath me, it doesn't even apply to me. The law is for people who don't love. When you know Christ, you know love and when you know love you are no longer a spreader of the message; YOU BECOME THE MESSAGE.
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Central US
852 posts, read 807,431 times
Reputation: 452
Default In a way i would agree

In a way i would agree with Fundamentalist.
I do however, believe you must repent often--as we are still sinners.

But about the part of becoming a Christian
When i was younger i was saved and baptised. It wasn't until way later in life that I actually felt the Holy Spirit, and it didn't happen until I was a true and faithful follower and i had recommitted myself to Christ. When I was young I was baptised becaused my family thought I should be--I really had no idea. It wasn't until I got older that I "got the idea."
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,191 posts, read 3,142,104 times
Reputation: 593
I too was considered a Christian as a Child, never baptised but knew the Bible and loved Jesus until I was 15, then all hell broke loose and I was very bad and mean to everyone of all faiths. At 30 God called me back and I have never been the same since. I have been a born again Christian for 8 years now and have seen prayers answered in His will and not mine and sometimes His will is hard to accept. I prayed not long after being born again for Him to take everything out of my life that was hampering my walk. He took my grandfather, my father, my business, my house, my vehicles and broke my heart in more ways than one. I am now addicted to His service bt not in the conventional Christian way. I am a contraversial Christian who reaches out to those most Christians are afraid of.
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:20 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
2,933 posts, read 2,128,592 times
Reputation: 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue62 View Post
Ajeck, maybe you are relying on the things man has been telling you about what you should and shouldn't do? Maybe He is nudging you a little? In a way, I think I can relate to how you are feeling..I didn't want NOT to believe, but what religion was telling me I HAD to believe just left a huge hole in my soul..In desperation to know, I did what I should have done years ago..I tearfully and humbly and sincerely prayed that this Holy spirit that Jesus promised would come awake inside me and be my comfortor, my teacher and my "change of heart" and to first cleanse my mind of all manmade teachings and to lead me through scripture that would restore my faith and give me peace..It took patience, it took prayer, it took "giving up giving in" to family members religions.. but it worked
<Sigh> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to blue62 again.

I was there for a long time ............. I found that to find truth you need to seek truth.

I agree with Blue62, instead of seeking christianity - christianity is not the way, the truth, the life (as there are many different versions/doctrines/dogmas/denominations) Seek the truth - The Son of God is aka Jesus the Christ, Yahshua The Messiah.
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:23 PM
 
Location: New York
321 posts, read 423,239 times
Reputation: 67
I'll get to Ajeck soon, but since Fundamentalist is skimming on the 411, let me clear the air so that side topic can come to a rest.

Since I was once a fundamentalist (I just threw up) myself, I know the talk and the walk and I know where he is coming from. Remember, his source is the Bible and his worldview derives from it and it only. He sees it as wondrous while others may see it as dangerous/stunting. That being said, the idea that a person CANNOT once be a Christian, forsake God and then come back (repent) that he speaks of comes from I (first) John 2:19 where it states:

Note the circular argument. It basically states that if a person leaves the Christian fold it proves that they were never really "saved" because if they were really "saved" in the first place they would have never left.

This is how the early church came upon the idea of an apostate (like me). They were the worst enemy the early church (just another ancient mystery religion) had to deal with. The former believer was a threat because he knew the operation. He knew the sacred initiations and the language. Considering the dangers, he also knew where they could be found breaking the law (at that time). There was also the threat of the Gnostics.

In order for the fledgling early church to keep numbers and prevent people from deserting, it became necessary to use hard language against those who left the fold and fearful language for those still within it. In one of the Epistles of Peter it states that former coverts who return back to their old lives are like dogs who return back to their vomit. In the book of Hebrews it states that people who leave the fold (apostates) will regret ever tasting of the goodness of God and then turning their back on it. It states that they can NEVER be renewed to the faith (read this in Hebrews 6) and this is where Fundamentalist is coming from.

It's his reality which of course does make it yours or mine.

Now back to the regularly scheduled program.
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