Don't know what I believe anymore. (homosexuality, convert, atheists, sexuality)

[Ajeck]

I just came back from studying for some finals. Wow, I wasn’t expecting so many responses in such a short time. I’d like to thank all that have commented as I appreciate the differing views of others. I’m going to try and respond to the best of my ability to some posts.

Originally Posted by StirringWaters

Ajeck, is it possible that you are tired of the actual church going religion rather than possibly disbelieving in Jesus?

This used to be my approach. When I was active in the Intervarsity group on campus, I explored the varying ways other students worshipped God. In doing this, I became much more frustrated with my faith. Each felt like what they did what right for them (but might not be right for me) and stated that we were still praising the same God. However, life styles and beliefs were very different from person to person. I am not a fan of relativism as since it leads to contradictions like: For one person, “Once saved always saved” and the other “You can fall from grace.” Though this is a generic example, exploring such questions just leaves me confused. Saying to “pray about it” or “We cannot understand what Gods plan is” seems like a cop-out (I mean no disrespect). I have spoken to who have; yet their conclusions contradict.

Originally Posted by RobinD69

There is the possibility that the secular world is getting to him. Most college professors want to destroy a persons faith because they believe it is a detriment to them actually learning anything.

I have not really run into this problem with my professors. Except for the class Philosophy of Religion, I have not been presented with my professor’s view on God/Religion. Even with the Philosophy class, my professor did his best to provoke both the atheist and theist to question their views. On the other hand, I can agree those who I am acquainted with won’t hesitate to share their views. But, I do not feel like I can “blame” them for what I am going through right now.

Originally Posted by ArmyPoohFan317

… Christianity is described by many as a feeling, but it isn't. It is based on the truth. As another poster has said, the Bible is full of prophecies that have been fulfilled, and there is outside proof that those prophecies were written long before the stories of their fulfillment. And, just in case you start to think "well duh! the people back then knew the prophecies, so of course they wrote Scripture that would show the fulfillment."…

I appreciate time that you took out to post such a sincere reply. I have come across a lot of what you mentioned in your post before. Some of it was from self reflection and the rest from research. I recently wrote a paper which used many of the points you brought up to discuss the possibility that God exists (since for me to say I have irrefutable proof wouldn’t be wise in a philosophy class). However, one thing that I noted is that just because Christianity may seem more “favorable” because there is an ever loving and forgiving God, doesn’t make it any more plausible. Whatever is the right faith will still be the right one regardless of how we feel about it. I understand you opened your reply with basing things on feeling isn’t the right way; however, this seemed to be one of your points when you were analyzing faiths. I may have misread what you said, but either way I appreciate your incite.

Originally Posted by RobinD69

Great post Armypoohfan317 and great points.

Gretchen_SDCA, not to argue but you do realize that the science community doesnt have any concrete evidence or theory for the begining of the universe and that many scientist believe in the creation perspective but are forbidden to voice this publically for fear of loosing their jobs and credibility.

Ajeck; Some other great ideas are certain websites and movies that can be very helpfull such as;

Expelled with Ben Stein

Way of the Master

and there is plenty of information for all sides on the internet.

I’ve read some A. Plantinga, Augustine, Kierkugardt and also done a lot of searching on the net (though it may be bad idea as a lot of the information is usually not checked or cited correctly… even Wikipedia).
I agree that science does not really prove or disprove God’s existence. It only tells us about what already exists. I recently watch Expelled and found it very interesting. Personally, when approached with evolution as a reason to not believe in a God, I always laughed. If God exists, then anything that occurs in this world could be a tool used by Him.

Originally Posted by sherryturner

Ajeck,
I can absolutely provide the "proof" in God. If you would like you can dm me and I will tell you. My "proof" involves dreams .

I do not cast doubt upon those who have such experiences. However, it is really hard to transfer the feeling, shock, and awe one gets from them. Personally, I have had a couple experiences in my life that made me think “huh, that’s interesting”. For example, when I was young I had a dream my grandmother was telling me she was going to be leaving and not to worry; the next day she died. This happened two other times in my life with other people. It’s hard for me to accept that these are real, but it’s just as for me to dismiss them. Also, these dreams do not confirm or deny a Christian God.

[*sherry*]

Originally Posted by Ajeck

I do not cast doubt upon those who have such experiences. However, it is really hard to transfer the feeling, shock, and awe one gets from them. Personally, I have had a couple experiences in my life that made me think “huh, that’s interesting”. For example, when I was young I had a dream my grandmother was telling me she was going to be leaving and not to worry; the next day she died. This happened two other times in my life with other people. It’s hard for me to accept that these are real, but it’s just as for me to dismiss them. Also, these dreams do not confirm or deny a Christian God.

Ajeck,
These instances cannot be explained away with science or medically...however, from my experience, if you finally come to the conclusion they are from God...many more things can happen. As far as transferring the shock and awe...I had actually told many people of my dreams before they happened...the shock and awe was there, believe me. As for me, at the time, I just thought "humm, that's kinda weird." I think I went through a stage also when I was praying to God and I would say "ok God, if it is really you, give me some more dreams." I didn't think he would but he did. The Bible does state that people will be able to prophesy...I know you didn't want chapter and verses...it's just I don't know what you think those dreams were. Take Care Ajeck and best of luck with your classes...College can be a trying time..I know...I did it, and now my daughters are going through.

[Morale Officer]

Ajek, I know how you feel. All I can tell you is that sometimes God tends to "sneak up on you" when you least expect Him to. You'll come back to whatever it is that you believe eventually. More than likely it won't be a loud bang or smack with the "Holy 2x4." It'll be a quiet whisper that at first you won't know it happened, but soon enough, that whisper will keep coming back. It's like starting with a tiny ember and slowly building a fire again and it's something that's well beyond your control. I won't give you scripture or argue or yell. All I can say is that I know where you are, and yes, it sucks, but you'll come out of it.

[Verna Perry]

Originally Posted by Gretchen_SDCA

No one can really tell you what to do. However, if I were you, I would take my time and do a lot of research, critical thinking, and studying. Consider the evidence for Christianity and other religions. Consult sources from within your religion, but also from those outside your religion. Then, see what conclusion(s) you reach.

Do not let anyone bully you with scripture verses, fear, punishment or anything like that. Step outside your comfort zone and look at the evidence objectively, and come to a decision that you feel reflects the truth.

......Hello Gretchen...I am very concerned for you...You didn't say how mature you were as a Christian, so I'm just going to speak to you as if you were a mature Christian, please, let me know if you don't understand, and I will explain in a more understandable way for you. .ok?....We are living in a very serious time right now, and I don't speak of the "natural" time, I speak of "spiritual" time...I pray to God He speaks through me to you...Knowing the location of our real battlefield with the enemy is vitally important. Only when we fully comprehend and appraise the location are we able to take our full authority through the shed blood of Jesus Christ and defeat the enemy where he attacks: in the battlefield of our minds. There is only one place that Satan can attack people, whether they are Christians or have never accepted Christ into their lives. That one place is in the battlefield of the mind. The results can be revealed in other areas, but the mind is the real battlefield where the initial attack takes place. When God created Adam, He gave him dominion and authority over everything on this earth (Genesis 1:28). Only a person who had complete dominion and authority over his own mind first could ever govern everything God created him to rule. Satan knew that the only way he could ever gain access to man's soul (and thereby lead him step by step into death) was through the gateway of the mind. So this was exactly how he approached Eve in the Garden of Eden - through her mind. Satan asked her a question which aroused her thinking in Satan's direction instead of God'a (Genesis 3:1). Next he went after her imagination, which is another function of the mind (genesis 3:5), capturing her with the idea of being like God. Then Satan easily captured another mental function, her inner vision (Genesis 3:6), and she saw that the tree from which God warned her not to eat, was 'good for food." Adam and Eve were never forced to yield their minds to the enemy. Their minds were not something over which they had no control. Quite the contrary, each had a completely free moral will. Through their minds they could either choose to use that will in direct disobedience to God, or to obey Him. Adam and Eve chose rebellion, and thereby came separation from God. At once, both of their minds (which were once occupied by thoughts, direction, and comminion with God) were flooded with thoughts inspired by the enemy (Genesis 3). Adam could only effectively rule over the earth to the extent that his mind was in communion with God. Thus we, as future kings and priests of our Lord, can only rule the kingdoms of God to the extent that we regain the complete dominion and authority of our own minds now, and place them full under the blood of Christ. After recognizing that the real battlefield is in the area of our minds, our battle objective then must be to take our full authority over the enemy and bring every thought and our entire minds under control of the Holy Spirit. We must root out, pull down, and destroy all the works of the enemy in our minds. We must stand up, resist the devil, and in the power of Christ throw out all of the enemy strongholds of our carnal minds. Only then can our minds be fully renewed...end...Dear Gretchen, I'm assuming that you are born again? You didn't say, so from what you said about your Christian foundation, I'll assume you are...As a born- again child of God, you have the ability to either receive or reject the thoughts that come into your mind. This actually means that you have the advantage over the thoughts that have been trying to invade your mind and bring you into bondage. The victory has already been won. Jesus Christ has gone before you to win the battle. Now, all that you need to do is to go out in His Name and claim the victory. To illustrate, remember the Israelites. Although God had already allotted the Promised Land to His people, they could not just walk in, put their feet up and rejoice. For forty years God had trained His people for war and equipped them for the battles ahead. But the Israelites had yet to learn through experience that there is a vast difference between legally owning the land and possessing it. When they finally crossed over into the Promised Land, they had a great deal of intensive work to do because they found the land infested with enemies. It is the sme with your mind. Jesus Christ has already paid the price to redeem it, but at the time you were born- again, it was already infested with thought patterns, habits, attitudes, and worldly ideals that had been planted years ago by the enemy. Now God wants every inch of the "land" cleaned up and filled with His Spirit. This is what we call the restored mind. (Ephesians 4:23). In our walk with the Lord, each stronghold in our mind represents a part of our life in Him which we will not experience (or take part of) until the enemy of that region is destroyed. We cannot be fully consecrated to God to perform service to Him until every trace of the enemy is annihilated. As long as there are any strongholds of fear, negative attitudes, worry, anxiety, or confusion left in the "land" of your mind, you will, in reality, be serving these things, and you will become mentally enslaved to whatever you serve (Romans 6:16). Until all the enemy strongholds of your old self nature (which are hostile to God) come down, the Holy Spirit is severely limited in how far He can restore your mind to Christ. He will never force you to give up an area of your thought life which you are unwilling to surrender. He will never violate your free will. This means that you will have many, many decisions to make on the road to total restoration of the battlefield that is your mind.....end.........I pray that something we've shared with you helps to guide you, the Lord has awsome plans for your future Gretchen...and I must tell you...the difference between a Christian, and those "other" religions is...WE SERVE THE KING OF KINGS; THE LORD OF LORDS..THE ONLY ONE TRUE LIVING GOD!!!!

[muleskinner]

Originally Posted by Ajeck

Before I get into the main topic, I suppose a little background is needed.

Pretty much every member of my family is a Christian. My parents raised me as a Roman Catholic and my uncle is Pastor at a Protestant Church. So all my life I was surrounded by those who believed in a Christian God. Before going to college, I honestly felt like I had some sort of relationship with God. I prayed everyday, went to Church essentially every Sunday, took part in youth groups, etc.

However, during the past few years I have begun seriously doubting my faith. I've spent the last year or two trying to resolve these doubts (reading apologetic, taking philosophy of religion, being part of the Christian community at my school, praying for an answer) yet with each attempt it seems to be getting worse. I understand that some will probably say "this may be a time to test and strengthen your faith" or "maybe you did not have faith originally"; however, I really do not find solace in such responses if that's all they have to offer.

I believe the main problem is that because I was raised in a Christian environment I was not presented with any alternative. Now that I am in a more "eclectic" one, I am allowed to entertain alternative views. Like many Christians I used to strongly believe that "Jesus was the only way"; yet, this same type of sincerity can be found in other faiths. Since I try to the best of my ability not to be a dense or naive person, I can no longer just simply say "well that belief is wrong." What makes them wrong and what makes Christians right?

The one thing I am truely aware of is a being's capacity to deceive oneself. I don't want to say I believe because the purely Bible says it to be true; just because one believes something doesn't make it any more true. If that was the only reason I would be essentially "tricking" myself into having faith; more specifically blind faith. I can also see this happening to individuals who practice other faiths.

I still go to Church regularly, however if this doubt continues, I can see myself becoming a "fake" or "dead" Christian as I would continue to go just be because it "makes me feel good" or "I should go just because."

I know that there are others out there that have had similar experiences; as I know what I am going through is most likely not unique, and would like to hear from them. However I ask... Please, do not just post scripture and tell me to take it at face value... it is not helpful.

Also, if there are any questions feel free to ask and I will try to answer them.

Peaks and valleys.....I have been saved a little over three years now and I have been on the mountains and in the valleys myself many times during the short period I have been TRYING to serve the LORD......I have felt HIM standing next to me and I have also felt as if I never knew HIM....It's odd and hard (impossible?) to explain,but I just keep plodding forward during the times in the valley and everytime I find HIM again.I've had that dead feeling you are talking about and I know how miserable that can be.Just keep praying is all I can say.I know that sounds over simplistic and I'm sorry about that,but that's the only way I've found to get rid of that feeling.Bind "that" spirit in the name of Jesus.Hope this helps.

[RobinD69]

Well Ajek, you sound like someone who really thinks things through and is not up for rash decissions. Perhaps like many of us God has a plan for you to learn something outside of the faith in order to make your faith stronger when He calls you back. There is another book I would like to share with you; "The Words of Jesus", it takes the actual words of Christ and presents them in a format seperate from the rest of the Bible. It gives context notes but not the surrounding text. I found this book interesting in that it showed Christ in His own words rather than the added explinations. Believe me He is not the mamsy pamsy Jesus the world would like us to believe in.

[Betsey Lane]

So many suggestions huh? And I truly believe everyone in their own way, is trying to help. All I can offer my friend, is commune with Him in a very quiet place. Tell Him all your cares and concerns. Hold yourself accountable for praying, worshiping and obtaining knowledge of the Word of God. Read your bible.

Pray through moments like this. Press your way through! It's not easy, and never will be while we are living this earthly life. Have friends and your relatives pray for you. Have you ever tried fasting? The weapon of choice when engaging in spiritual battle is fasting and praying. I can pray for you if you like. God's strength to you, my friend. I know He is able to do all things!!

Your sister in Christ Jesus

[Verna Perry]

Originally Posted by Verna Perry

......Hello Gretchen...I am very concerned for you...You didn't say how mature you were as a Christian, so I'm just going to speak to you as if you were a mature Christian, please, let me know if you don't understand, and I will explain in a more understandable way for you. .ok?....We are living in a very serious time right now, and I don't speak of the "natural" time, I speak of "spiritual" time...I pray to God He speaks through me to you...Knowing the location of our real battlefield with the enemy is vitally important. Only when we fully comprehend and appraise the location are we able to take our full authority through the shed blood of Jesus Christ and defeat the enemy where he attacks: in the battlefield of our minds. There is only one place that Satan can attack people, whether they are Christians or have never accepted Christ into their lives. That one place is in the battlefield of the mind. The results can be revealed in other areas, but the mind is the real battlefield where the initial attack takes place. When God created Adam, He gave him dominion and authority over everything on this earth (Genesis 1:28). Only a person who had complete dominion and authority over his own mind first could ever govern everything God created him to rule. Satan knew that the only way he could ever gain access to man's soul (and thereby lead him step by step into death) was through the gateway of the mind. So this was exactly how he approached Eve in the Garden of Eden - through her mind. Satan asked her a question which aroused her thinking in Satan's direction instead of God'a (Genesis 3:1). Next he went after her imagination, which is another function of the mind (genesis 3:5), capturing her with the idea of being like God. Then Satan easily captured another mental function, her inner vision (Genesis 3:6), and she saw that the tree from which God warned her not to eat, was 'good for food." Adam and Eve were never forced to yield their minds to the enemy. Their minds were not something over which they had no control. Quite the contrary, each had a completely free moral will. Through their minds they could either choose to use that will in direct disobedience to God, or to obey Him. Adam and Eve chose rebellion, and thereby came separation from God. At once, both of their minds (which were once occupied by thoughts, direction, and comminion with God) were flooded with thoughts inspired by the enemy (Genesis 3). Adam could only effectively rule over the earth to the extent that his mind was in communion with God. Thus we, as future kings and priests of our Lord, can only rule the kingdoms of God to the extent that we regain the complete dominion and authority of our own minds now, and place them full under the blood of Christ. After recognizing that the real battlefield is in the area of our minds, our battle objective then must be to take our full authority over the enemy and bring every thought and our entire minds under control of the Holy Spirit. We must root out, pull down, and destroy all the works of the enemy in our minds. We must stand up, resist the devil, and in the power of Christ throw out all of the enemy strongholds of our carnal minds. Only then can our minds be fully renewed...end...Dear Gretchen, I'm assuming that you are born again? You didn't say, so from what you said about your Christian foundation, I'll assume you are...As a born- again child of God, you have the ability to either receive or reject the thoughts that come into your mind. This actually means that you have the advantage over the thoughts that have been trying to invade your mind and bring you into bondage. The victory has already been won. Jesus Christ has gone before you to win the battle. Now, all that you need to do is to go out in His Name and claim the victory. To illustrate, remember the Israelites. Although God had already allotted the Promised Land to His people, they could not just walk in, put their feet up and rejoice. For forty years God had trained His people for war and equipped them for the battles ahead. But the Israelites had yet to learn through experience that there is a vast difference between legally owning the land and possessing it. When they finally crossed over into the Promised Land, they had a great deal of intensive work to do because they found the land infested with enemies. It is the sme with your mind. Jesus Christ has already paid the price to redeem it, but at the time you were born- again, it was already infested with thought patterns, habits, attitudes, and worldly ideals that had been planted years ago by the enemy. Now God wants every inch of the "land" cleaned up and filled with His Spirit. This is what we call the restored mind. (Ephesians 4:23). In our walk with the Lord, each stronghold in our mind represents a part of our life in Him which we will not experience (or take part of) until the enemy of that region is destroyed. We cannot be fully consecrated to God to perform service to Him until every trace of the enemy is annihilated. As long as there are any strongholds of fear, negative attitudes, worry, anxiety, or confusion left in the "land" of your mind, you will, in reality, be serving these things, and you will become mentally enslaved to whatever you serve (Romans 6:16). Until all the enemy strongholds of your old self nature (which are hostile to God) come down, the Holy Spirit is severely limited in how far He can restore your mind to Christ. He will never force you to give up an area of your thought life which you are unwilling to surrender. He will never violate your free will. This means that you will have many, many decisions to make on the road to total restoration of the battlefield that is your mind.....end.........I pray that something we've shared with you helps to guide you, the Lord has awsome plans for your future Gretchen...and I must tell you...the difference between a Christian, and those "other" religions is...WE SERVE THE KING OF KINGS; THE LORD OF LORDS..THE ONLY ONE TRUE LIVING GOD!!!!

......In my previous post, I meant it to be to Ajek, not Gretchen...sorry....LOVE.

[Betsey Lane]

Originally Posted by Gretchen_SDCA

As to the second answer, I understand what you were saying now.

As to the first, I never suggested he use his "feelings." I suggested that he examine the evidence. I admittedly used the wrong verb (stating that he should do what he "feels" is right based on the evidence - I should have said that he should do what he believes is right based on the evidence). After many years in the US, as a native German speaker, I still slip up on a verb occasionally. Apologies!

Imagine the whole world doing what "he or she" feels is right based on their own evidence.......................................... well, if you think theirs no God now......................!

[DTO Luv]

Ajeck,

My advice to you is to give up on it all and just live your life how you want to live. All religions are is a way to control people. You sound like your going what I went through before. Like you said you were brought up in the church and you haven't gotten any exposure to other ways of living you are naturally going to have inner conflicts being in situations you're not used to. You may think of it as some god feeling of guilt when you give up on your faith but that is natural. It definitely takes some time to de-program.

I don't have a lot of time to expound upon on it now but I will post more specific reasons later.