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If a Christian is born again and is fully committed to growing in the Lord and developing: faith and love and patience and gentleness…
And then after years of this, something happens and that person gets distracted and back-slides, were they never saved to begin with?
Or were they saved, but then needed to be restored?
You can't crucify Christ again which means they remained saved during their backslides. Most people have backsliden at times in their Christian walk. As a newborn you are going to fall and stumble at times. That is part of maturing into a productive fruit bearing Christian. Some trees take longer than others but ALL Christians will produce fruit if they are truly saved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio
It's better not to get distracted.
But if one continues to “forget” God and dies in that state, the Bible doesn't seem to teach that one will go to heaven.
The Bible teaches OSAS, any other doctrine comes from man. Read this post on so-called "problem verses". There is not one verse in the Bible that refutes OSAS.
Hebrews 13:5-Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
I don't know where that word comes from, but I know that they used it a million times while I was in he pentecostal church as a teen, I was terrified at the slightest error, they would say that I was back-sliding, IMO they used the word too loosely.
The word back-slide sounds like it was made up to express that one had slid backwards into their worldy, ungodly ways.. didn't give anyone room to make a mistake, to me I always felt guilt and condemnation which is contrary to Romans 8, that assures us that "there is no guilt or condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus".............
my answer doesn't explain a lot about the word "back-slide"
But it's my thoughts on it, that it was made up by a movement, thanks for the thread though it's worth looking into ,
God Bless You
Jeremiah 8
1At that time, saith the LORD, they shall bring out the bones of the kings of Judah, and the bones of his princes, and the bones of the priests, and the bones of the prophets, and the bones of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, out of their graves:
2And they shall spread them before the sun, and the moon, and all the host of heaven, whom they have loved, and whom they have served, and after whom they have walked, and whom they have sought, and whom they have worshipped: they shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth.
3And death shall be chosen rather than life by all the residue of them that remain of this evil family, which remain in all the places whither I have driven them, saith the LORD of hosts.
4Moreover thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD; Shall they fall, and not arise? shall he turn away, and not return?
5Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding? they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return.
Is this not the scripture?
So, I guess I'm not saved, because I've "back-slid" in the past and come back to restoration.
Oh well. Perfection is so hard.
I can't say, if you are saved or not and that is not my intent. I believe you are saved because you said so and have shown or said nothing to prove otherwise. I am just saying if you "backslid" then you were not saved before. You have not returned but have come to Him for the first time. If we could foretell the future and we know you "backslide" 2 years from now then you are not saved NOW! but we can't so it is a moot point. I can only show you from scripture how we are saved.
The bible says that Christians can sin for a season but what is a season? how long is a season? and what type of sin? Does it allow falling into sin or diving into sin. The bible is not clear.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 12-10-2008 at 07:25 AM..
I can't say, if you are saved or not and that is not my intent. I believe you are saved because you said so and have shown or said nothing to prove otherwise. I am just saying if you "backslid" then you were not saved before. You have not returned but have come to Him for the first time. If we could foretell the future and we know you "backslide" 2 years from now then you are not saved NOW! but we can't so it is a moot point. I can only show you from scripture how we are saved.
The bible says that Christians can sin for a season but what is a season? how long is a season? and what type of sin? Does it allow falling into sin or diving into sin. The bible is not clear.
Since 'backslid' is not a Biblical word, why do you presist in holding on to it? As Richio has so rightly stated, the once saved always saved doctrine is a very scary doctrine, in that it excuses anyone from attempting to stay on the straight and narrow.
Your persistance in saying that the ones who 'fall away' were not saved in the first place, is not Biblical either.
It seems you are placing yourself in the position to judge who was saved by God and who wasn't.
The scriptures teach that any who hears, believes, and obeys will be saved. They also teach that anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teachings of Christ, has not God. The word 'abide' is the key word. We can do all that God instructs us, with all faith and love, but in times of temptation or trials, we can turn away from all that we once had. If we do that, we can, and will be removed from God's grace!
If we fall from His grace, we have the option to remain in that condition, or to repent and return to God. That is entirely Biblical.
I am sure Paul had a much closer walk with Christ, and with the Holy Spirit, than you, and yet he disciplined his body to bring it into subjection, lest when he had preached to others , he himself should become disqualified.
1 Cor. 9.27
I ask you, 'disqualified' from what?
Even if there are only two or three scriptures that teach that we (meaning Christians) can be lost, it is sufficient to cancel the 'once saved, always saved' doctrine.
We do not need a multitude of scriptures that say "Jesus wept", in order to believe that He wept!
And yes, I am sure if we love Jesus enough we will not sin, but in times of weakness, we can even become weak in that love, just as we do towards the humans that we love.
I can't say, if you are saved or not and that is not my intent. I believe you are saved because you said so and have shown or said nothing to prove otherwise. I am just saying if you "backslid" then you were not saved before. You have not returned but have come to Him for the first time. If we could foretell the future and we know you "backslide" 2 years from now then you are not saved NOW! but we can't so it is a moot point. I can only show you from scripture how we are saved.
The bible says that Christians can sin for a season but what is a season? how long is a season? and what type of sin? Does it allow falling into sin or diving into sin. The bible is not clear.
So…
When He flooded me – instantly changing me from an agnostic to one who knows and cleansing me from all my sins – I wasn’t REALLY saved, because I’ve slid back since then?
(I’m speaking hypothetically)
But now, I am REALLY saved, since I have “returned” (or so it seems to me).
What REALLY seems to me – is that you’re stretching predestination beyond what it REALLY is, and totally removing free will from the equation.
Sure, God draws a person to Himself (perhaps, He draws all people at some time).
But we have free will and must choose to follow.
Upon being saved, our free will is not removed.
God knows how our daily choices will ultimately lead us, and so in that sense, we are predestined.
But for us, our future has not yet been written, and so we must daily choose to follow.
If OSAS is my “mantra”, then my daily choices may not seem all that vital to me.
I can relax and take Christ a little bit for granted – knowing that no matter what, I’m ALWAYS saved.
I guess it boils down to what we interpret God's plan to be. I believe He will have all men to be saved, and yes, that's scriptural. If we can't reconcile the multitude of correctional passages with the multitude of desire passages, then we have more pressing in to do - not in studying, but seeking His face.
The Authorized King James Version has been around since 1611, and we can't settle on issues that the unchanging God has long settled. Something's wrong.
The real danger is in “once saved always saved”, as it leaves no incentive to grow or do anything further in the pursuit of God.
OSAS, get's 'em saved, but actually encourages complacency.
Certainly, we’re not to walk around constantly questioning our salvation; that is just unbelief.
Jesus is able to keep us, but we are exhorted to continue in the faith - to finish the race - "working out our own salvation with fear and trembling".
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13
Just as there is now no condemnation for those in Christ, grace is not license to sin.
Just because back-sliding exists, it is not a license to back-slide.
While the word “back-sliding” may not be in the Bible, restoration sure is.
As we are human, it is natural that we might get distracted and wander off, but then we must come back like the prodigal son.
However, this restoration is a private matter between God and each person.
It is wrong to make some sort of public ceremony of it – like some re-baptism or even a confirmation.
It is a renewal of the human heart restored to a proper relationship with God.
OSAS is a man-made doctrine.
I read the whole Bible before I ever went to church as a born again Christian.
It was clear to me, before Christians started trying to teach me things, that back-sliding was real and that we need to finish the race.
Absolutly correct.
What seems to get lost is the Bible is for all. Which means for those who are haunted by their sins and weak faith the message is of assurance..that God is the founder and keeper and preserver of your salvation. I need that assurance every day for that is my human nature to think that I must contribute something.
But the other message is a message of warning, that as a believer trusting in something other than God can jeopardize your faith: There is no more clearer passage than Galations 5:4 but these are the others.
Matthew 13. "he hears the word and at once receives it with joy. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away"
1 Corinthians 10:12
So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!
Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ;you have fallen away from grace.
1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
Warning Against Falling Away
Hebrews 5:11-12
11We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!
2 Peter 1:10
Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, (implying that if you don't do these things you will fall)
2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Hebrews 6:6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
You can simply ignore (as many in the OSAS do) or refuse to believe what you're reading about falling from grace, but scripture must be taken in whole. When there seems to be a contradiction, the problem isn't with scripture.
Yes I'm assured a place in heaven because of Gods promise BUT I also must not think I'm not capable of going stagnant or worse..
So…
When He flooded me – instantly changing me from an agnostic to one who knows and cleansing me from all my sins – I wasn’t REALLY saved, because I’ve slid back since then?
(I’m speaking hypothetically)
But now, I am REALLY saved, since I have “returned” (or so it seems to me).
What REALLY seems to me – is that you’re stretching predestination beyond what it REALLY is, and totally removing free will from the equation.
Sure, God draws a person to Himself (perhaps, He draws all people at some time).
But we have free will and must choose to follow.
Upon being saved, our free will is not removed.
God knows how our daily choices will ultimately lead us, and so in that sense, we are predestined.
But for us, our future has not yet been written, and so we must daily choose to follow.
If OSAS is my “mantra”, then my daily choices may not seem all that vital to me.
I can relax and take Christ a little bit for granted – knowing that no matter what, I’m ALWAYS saved.
Dan Barker, an evangelical pastor for 20 plus years is now an atheist, President of The Freedom from Religion Foundation. He is the one creating the stir with the atheist sign next to the nativity scene. Was he ever truly saved in the first place?
How did he go from the "Holy Spirit embracing Him" to Dan just totally denying the existence of God and blaspheming His name.
Dan Barker's quote, "If the God of the bible really did exist, then I will go gladly to hell"
Was he ever saved or is this falling away or backsliding? From Dan Barkers's testimony I would say, he makes the Holy Spirit look like a liar.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 12-10-2008 at 09:34 AM..
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