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I agree that no one can take our salvation from us, but we can give up our salvation from turning away from Him. I have to apologize now, because I didn't read this whole thread, so this may have already been brought up, but those that believe in OSAS, how do you reconcile these verses...
2 Peter 2:20-22... For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For if had been better for them not to have known righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, THE DOG IS TURNED TO HIS OWN VOMIT AGAIN; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
I was a very faithful Christian for 10 years. Went to services when the doors were open, was a Sunday school teacher, took my children, etc...but when I ended up divorced, I fell away. No one can tell me that during those 10 yrs I wasn't truly saved. I have absolutely no doubt that had I died during that time, I would have gone to Paradise. However, while I'm struggling to get my faith back, I am as the above verses read...worse than someone who hasn't even heard the Word yet.
Peter is talking about people who have learned about Christ and how to be saved but then reject the truth and return to their sin. These people are worse off than before because they have rejected the only way out of sin, the only way of salvation. Like someone sinking in quicksand who refuses to grab the rope thrown to them. We cannot lose our salvation, but we can lose
the joy of our salvation.
Peter is talking about people who have learned about Christ and how to be saved but then reject the truth and return to their sin. These people are worse off than before because they have rejected the only way out of sin, the only way of salvation. Like someone sinking in quicksand who refuses to grab the rope thrown to them. We cannot lose our salvation,but we can lose the joy of our salvation.
I agree that no one can take our salvation from us, but we can give up our salvation from turning away from Him. I have to apologize now, because I didn't read this whole thread, so this may have already been brought up, but those that believe in OSAS, how do you reconcile these verses...
2 Peter 2:20-22... For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For if had been better for them not to have known righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, THE DOG IS TURNED TO HIS OWN VOMIT AGAIN; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
I was a very faithful Christian for 10 years. Went to services when the doors were open, was a Sunday school teacher, took my children, etc...but when I ended up divorced, I fell away. No one can tell me that during those 10 yrs I wasn't truly saved. I have absolutely no doubt that had I died during that time, I would have gone to Paradise. However, while I'm struggling to get my faith back, I am as the above verses read...worse than someone who hasn't even heard the Word yet.
Jamie,
Please go back and read 2 Peter 2 and start at the first of the chapter and see this verse in its context. Peter is speaking to false prophets, false teachers and teachers of heresy. Heresy is a strong, strong term in the bible and does not mean bad teaching or teaching that has some error in it. Heresy is a teaching that nullifies the centrality of the gospel, that Jesus did not exist, that Jesus is not the way to salvation, that some other way besides Jesus and the cross is the way to God.
These are the ones that Peter is so vehemently speaking against.
I do not see from your testimony that you come anywhere near to this. Are you teaching another gospel, preaching another savior besides Jesus? I doubt it, so this word does not apply to you.
I am not saying that divorce and sins that can lead to divorce are not devastating to you and to those around you. The wages of sin is death, even to those that believe. If we sin, we encounter death in the form of death of relationships, death within our character and even physical death as most forms of sin are just downright unhealthy enterprises.
However, you have an advocate in Jesus who has already paid for this sin and has told you that he has cast it as far as east is from west. Jesus told us, and you can take this to heart and apply it personally in your own situation, that he was tempted in every single way that you are and have been. Yet without sin. But he did become acquainted with the very sin you have committed, not by committing it himself, but by becoming that very sin, bearing it in his body, as he hung on the cross for you.
Jesus looks on you now with love and compassion. He hurts and longs for you, for the destruction that has come upon you, he hurts, for the grief you are going thru, he grieves with you.
This statement of Peter's that it is better that you never should have come to a saving knowledge in the first place is not for you. This is for false teachers and false prophets that have led many astray. It is not for those of us who have become entangled in sin and have been prey for the enemy. Please know this scripture is not speaking about you.
There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. This word of condemnation you are speaking over yourself is not of God. Satan is the accuser of the brethren.
JamieDawn, find a good church that will help you restore, that preaches the grace of God and the forgiveness of the cross. Jesus loves you, you are his and he is welcoming you home. Go read the story of the prodigal son again. He is running toward you as soon as you turn to him. He will not chide, will not punish, instead he will clothe you, put his ring on your finger and call for a feast. Your Father loves you. Go to him and be healed.
Matthew 12:20,21
A bruised reed he will not break,
and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out,
till he leads justice to victory.
In his name the nations will put their hope.
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
I saw an episode of "Drive Through History" (TBN), which talked about Laodicea.
They were partway between tow other cities.
One had great hot springs and the other - beautiful cold water.
Laodicea had nasty lukewarm water.
The pride of their commerce was super-black lamb's wool cloth.
It was highly valued.
They also made eye salve.
Their physical situation reflected their spiritual condition in some ways and contrasted it in other ways.
But let's not look down on them too much.
Laodiceans can be found in too many churches.
It's time (as always) to hear what the Spirit has to say to the churches. (Rev 3:15-19)
I sat down and read all of 2 Peter again. While I agree it is talking to false teachers, I still am not convinced who verses 20-22 is talking to. Could be the false teachers, or it could be those who are swayed by false teachers.
I can't see it as it talking about people who hear the Word, but don't do anything about it. It says "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world"...that to me says they have been saved. They haven't escaped just by hearing. Then, "they are again entangled therein"...to me says they have gone back to worldly ways.
Saintmarks...thank you so much for your kind words. I, for one, would love to believe that I still have my salvation. Let me ask you this. If I was a faithful Christian for 10 yrs, but ended up living in the world again, being selfish and doing what I please...if I died today, will I go to heaven? My faith is weak at the moment. There are reasons (selfish ones) that I don't want to return to living right just yet. I still believe in God with all my heart, but I have doubts about a lot of things. Am I still a Christian? Am I still saved? Would I go to heaven right now?
I sat down and read all of 2 Peter again. While I agree it is talking to false teachers, I still am not convinced who verses 20-22 is talking to. Could be the false teachers, or it could be those who are swayed by false teachers.
I can't see it as it talking about people who hear the Word, but don't do anything about it. It says "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world"...that to me says they have been saved. They haven't escaped just by hearing. Then, "they are again entangled therein"...to me says they have gone back to worldly ways.
Saintmarks...thank you so much for your kind words. I, for one, would love to believe that I still have my salvation. Let me ask you this. If I was a faithful Christian for 10 yrs, but ended up living in the world again, being selfish and doing what I please...if I died today, will I go to heaven? My faith is weak at the moment. There are reasons (selfish ones) that I don't want to return to living right just yet. I still believe in God with all my heart, but I have doubts about a lot of things. Am I still a Christian? Am I still saved? Would I go to heaven right now?
Thank you again for caring about my soul.
I was like you. No one here can tell you if you are a Christian or not. All I could say is look inward, be absolutely honest with yourself. Are you a Christian? It's not enough to know or believe in Jesus. Does Jesus know you?
I was like you. No one here can tell you if you are a Christian or not. All I could say is look inward, be absolutely honest with yourself. Are you a Christian. It's not enough to know Jesus. Does Jesus know you?
He did. If God cannot look upon sin, He cannot look upon me right now. When I think about the time before my divorce, how much I loved worshipping God, teaching those kids, being involved in the youth group, etc...I think, how can I now be so selfish?
I am learning a lot from here. Some from you, Fundy...like, except for the Lord's prayer (before His death), no where are we told we have to ask forgiveness for our sins, just repent and confess them. I have to admit that realization blew me away.
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