Christmas-A Christian Holiday? (Holy Spirit, worship, Matthew, pagan)

[Miss Blue]

Originally Posted by alicenevada

By the way, I find 'Christian Reviews' to be oddly contradictory. I am a Christian and I review movies. But never would I presume to say that I am somehow immune to the mendacity prevalent in many movies today...nor that I should go see them (ignoring the MPAA rating) in order to 'screen' them for my fellow Christians.

I have to say that Alice is very good at giving movie reviews..This is from another thread I think she is very good and quite the performer
http://www.city-data.com/forum/6598960-post705.html

[alicenevada]

Originally Posted by weatherologist

OK, now I'm going to go out on a limb and leaving myself open to complete ridicule, but I'm confused by the above post.

There were three men (we can call them astrologists, Magi, whatever works here) who followed a star. Wouldn't that be the way that people traveled back then? I mean, really. I don't think they had a GPS quite yet. So, because they studied the stars and followed them, they must have been sent by Satan? I am not trying to poke a fight. I really don't get it. I understand that the nativity story may have been glamorized a little. I understand that December the 25th is not the true 'date' of Christ's birth, but I think that suggesting that the Magi and the star were from Satan is taking it in the extreme opposite direction.

Help me out, people.

<><

The scriptures state that the astrologers (whose very occupation involves divination by means of the stars) were 'following a star' that they felt pointed to the one who was prophesied to be king of the jews. The scriptures do not say there were three. They wanted to do obesiance to this man, presumably out of respect. They were summoned by the king who told them to report back to him (since he wanted to kill this one before he had a chance to obtain a following). My point was, why would God have provided a star to point out the location of the house where jesus was living? If there was indeed a bright and significant star leading those ones to Jesus, it doesnt stand to reason that God would have placed it there. Astrology, after all, was not a godly occupation so it's not reasonable to conclude that God was intentionally trying to lead them by means of a star.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by alicenevada

I'm not judging how others come to Christ...the bible does that for me.

Sorry . . . but I am not conversing with the bible . . . I am conversing with you . . . and it is YOU who is judging based on YOUR interpretation of what the words in the bible MEAN.

And yes, my view is my own...based on my own study of the bible. My God appreciates the efforts of all who try sincerely to please him. Whether doing so means making popular choices or not is neither here nor there.

Popularity has nothing to do with it . . . presumptuous self-righteous certainty that one knows God's mind and purpose infallibly . . . has everything to do with your views. You are not the only sincere one . . .nor is your way of expressing that sincerity the only correct way.

[juj]

Originally Posted by alicenevada

haha. No, I never said anyone was going to hell or going to be damned for celebrating Christmas...did I? (looking back over thread) No. I didnt. I have no doubt that if you truly feel you are honoring God with these practices, God knows it. And he is the only one who reads hearts, rights?

But I couldnt do it, knowing what I know about the holiday's history. That's why I posted this topic...to get a feel for what other Christians feel about its origins. That's all.

The history of any holiday is irrelevent. Using an old pagan holiday was a way of evangelizing the pagans. Now they could have their cake and eat it, too. How is the holiday celebrated today and what is in your heart regarding the celebration. That is what counts, and more importantly, that is what God knows.

[alicenevada]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

You are not the only sincere one . . .nor is your way of expressing that sincerity the only correct way.

And I agree with this one hundred and ten percent!

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by juj

The history of any holiday is irrelevent. Using an old pagan holiday was a way of evangelizing the pagans. Now they could have their cake and eat it, too. How is the holiday celebrated today and what is in your heart regarding the celebration. That is what counts, and more importantly, that is what God knows.

Amen!

[alicenevada]

Originally Posted by juj

The history of any holiday is irrelevent. Using an old pagan holiday was a way of evangelizing the pagans. Now they could have their cake and eat it, too. How is the holiday celebrated today and what is in your heart regarding the celebration. That is what counts, and more importantly, that is what God knows.

You think so? Then what is your opinion of Exodus 32:4-10 in which the ancient nation of Israel created a 'day for Jehovah' by using pagan practices surrounding, but changing the name. Why was God not honored?

[weatherologist]

Originally Posted by alicenevada

The scriptures state that the astrologers (whose very occupation involves divination by means of the stars) were 'following a star' that they felt pointed to the one who was prophesied to be king of the jews. The scriptures do not say there were three. They wanted to do obesiance to this man, presumably out of respect. They were summoned by the king who told them to report back to him (since he wanted to kill this one before he had a chance to obtain a following). My point was, why would God have provided a star to point out the location of the house where jesus was living? If there was indeed a bright and significant star leading those ones to Jesus, it doesnt stand to reason that God would have placed it there. Astrology, after all, was not a godly occupation so it's not reasonable to conclude that God was intentionally trying to lead them by means of a star.

OK, so these men (however many there were) were following a star to pay honor to the one who was prophesied to be the king of the jews and on their way they run into Herod who orders them to come back and tell him where this king of the jews is. They choose not to. I still don't get how the star was from Satan.

What about Numbers 24:17?

BibleGateway.com - Passage*Lookup: Numbers 24:17

17 "I see him, but not now;
I behold him, but not near.
A star will come out of Jacob;
a scepter will rise out of Israel.
He will crush the foreheads of Moab,
the skulls [a] of [b] all the sons of Sheth.

Bare with me, I am biblically illiterate.

[alicenevada]

Jesus was the 'star' of Numbers...I don't believe this to be literal...'daystar' was also a term used in reference to Christ.

I never said the star 'was' from Satan. I simply said that if there was indeed a star that 'led' the astrologers to Jesus, it doesnt stand to reason that it would have been specifically placed there by God. If someone was responsible for it, it makes more sense it would be Satan. That's all.

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by aiangel_writer

I do celebrate Christmas. My way. The tree holds the star that the shepherds followed the night of Christs birth. The gifts symbolize the gifts that Christ was given.

This was given to me a few years ago.....

The Star: A heavenly sign of prophecy fulfilled long, long ago- The shining hope of mankind.

The Color red: The first color of Christmas, symbolizing that Savior's sacrifice for all

The Fir Tree Evergreen- the second color of Christmas shows everlasting light and life. The needles point up to heaven.

The Bell: Rings out to guide lost sheep back to the fold, signifying that all are precious in His eyes.

The Candle: A mirror of starlight, reflecting our thanks for the star of Bethlehem.

The Gift Bow: Tied as we should all be tied together in bonds of goodwill forever.

The Candy Cane: Represents the shape of the shepherd's crook, used to bring lost lambs back to the fold.

The Wreath: A symbol of the never ending eternal value of love....having no end....

GREAT post!!!! I agree