Christmas-A Christian Holiday? (history, New Testament, Almighty, spiritual)

[alicenevada]

Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA

But that's not what happened, in Matthew 2: 12 "But when it was time to leave, they went home another way, because God had warned them in a dream not to return to Herod".

Yes, God stopped them before they could report. Still doesnt seem logical that he would have had anything to do w/ leading astrologers to Jesus. Why those particular men? There is no evidence that they were godly men-they brought gifts to the one prophesied 'king of the jews' but there is no statement that they praised God or discontinued their ungodly practices. Just an interesting point. I'm not claiming to know for certain, indeed the bible never says.

[alicenevada]

[quote=mzjamiedawn;6602633]

Originally Posted by Verna Perry

Are you saying you literally believe that December 25 is Christ's birthday?

I don't think so. I'm sure she is aware that the magi did not visit Jesus at the time of his birth. He could likely have been two years old by this time since Herrod instructed that all male boys two years and under be killed.

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by alicenevada

Yes, God stopped them before they could report. Still doesnt seem logical that he would have had anything to do w/ leading astrologers to Jesus. Why those particular men? There is no evidence that they were godly men-they brought gifts to the one prophesied 'king of the jews' but there is no statement that they praised God or discontinued their ungodly practices. Just an interesting point. I'm not claiming to know for certain, indeed the bible never says.

Matthew 2:1-2 "Jesus was born in the town of Bethlehem in Judea, during the reign of King Herod. About that time some wise men from eastern lands arrived in Jerusalem asking, where is the newborn king of the Jews? We have seen His star as it arose and we have come to worship Him".

I believe God lead these particular men to Jesus because they were looking for Him and seeking Him. Just like today, anyone seeking Jesus will find him.

[alicenevada]

Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA

Matthew 2:1-2 "Jesus was born in the town of Bethlehem in Judea, during the reign of King Herod. About that time some wise men from eastern lands arrived in Jerusalem asking, where is the newborn king of the Jews? We have seen His star as it arose and we have come to worship Him".

I believe God lead these particular men to Jesus because they were looking for Him and seeking Him. Just like today, anyone seeking Jesus will find him.

Hmmm, I see it more as a satisfying of curiosity than that of having been led by God himself. It still doesnt gel, in my eyes. Why would they go to the King if that were the case? Wouldnt God have seen fit to lead them straight to Christ? I think there's a reason the fact is not dwelled on or reiterated in the scriptures.

[StirringWaters]

The star in the sky didn't bring me to Jesus. His love did.

[bluepacific]

Originally Posted by alicenevada

?? I can't say I agree that God would personally point out Christ for Herrod to kill. Wouldnt tht sort of defeat his purpose? But perhaps it was only the astrologers who noticed the star, that being their field and all. I don't really feel that the star was as important as people seem to think...

The History Channel a couple years ago had a special on the three wise men as most people know them. They did indeed identify them as Astrologers. The actual world used for them is Magi. There are a number of Bible translations which use the original name Magi. The program brought out that is is the root word we use for magic. Much like the many magic practicing priest used back then in the various pagan royal courts. The History Channel brought out that every nation surrounding the people of Israel practiced Astrology, except the Israelite people. There were numerous laws given against this pagan practice which had it's first origins in ancient Babylon where these priest originated.

The program posed a number of questions which were actually intriguing. One of them was, why would God use a pagan religion, which he condemned in the Law to guide pagan priests to his son ???

The program also pointed out that it was ONLY these astrologers who ever saw the star. They thought this was interesting since we often see scenes of the shepherds looking up at the star, but the Bible never discribes this anywhere. Seems to have morphed as a tradition as time went on. The other tradition is that there was three of them, however, again the Bible never did say howmany there were. They suspect people assumed three because of the gifts presented. Interesting.

Another question was they posed: Why did'nt, if the star was from God, did he not just lead these pagan priests to the baby Jesus at Bethlehem in the first place ??? Why did the star lead them to King Herod at Jerusalem who as it turned out, wanted to kill the young child ??? Why would God do that ???

Another point they brought out was the timing of when they found and actually saw Jesus. Matthew 2:11 tells us that when the Astrologers "went into the house, they saw the young child." So Joseph, Mary and Jesus were by this time living in a house, not in a stable in a manger as is often depicted erroneously. The word used in the Greek language describing Jesus as a young child more often denotes a child in advanced age, like a toddler who may even be speaking some words. They also pointed out that when the Astrologers failed to return to Herod, his instructions of killing children two years of age and under were also telling.

It's also curious that this star, which indeed was diliberately guiding them to Jerusalem, then reappeared to them and guided them back east from where they had already come , and took them to Bethlehem. Why did'nt God just do that in the first place ??? It's also interesting that when God intervined and warned them to go out by another way, there is no mention of this star leading them out again.

There is no doubt that the powerful force behind the star , was certainly not the Almighty God behind the Bible.

Draw your own conclusions who was really behind the star

[StirringWaters]

I was going to stop at my last post, but I just have to ask something. Why would we want to doubt the power of God? Why would we want to doubt that He put that star in the sky to bring in men and make them believers?

My God is all powerful and capable of all. I don't have to understand the whys.

[alicenevada]

Originally Posted by StirringWaters

I was going to stop at my last post, but I just have to ask something. Why would we want to doubt the power of God? Why would we want to doubt that He put that star in the sky to bring in men and make them believers?

My God is all powerful and capable of all. I don't have to understand the whys.

No one is doubting the power of God. We doubt the validity of the star's having been placed by God, based on scripture. None of this has anything to do with his awesome power, his gift of his son, or Christ's sacrifice.

[Verna Perry]

[quote=mzjamiedawn;6602633]

Originally Posted by Verna Perry

Are you saying you literally believe that December 25 is Christ's birthday?

Yes, that IS what I am saying. " The last book of the New Testament is, in part, a prophetic enigma. But a portion of the book of Revelation provides clear and compelling guidance for our astronomical investigations. The Apostle John wrote the book as an old man while in exile on the island of Patmos. Perhaps the austerity of this exile or a lack of companionship left him time to ponder the sky. Whatever reason, Revelation is full of star inagery. In Chapter 12, John describes a life and death drama played out in the sky: the birth of a KING!...A great and wonderous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon inder her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head..."..end... It was a constellation!...anyway, for the full story, go to my new thread..."God still speaks to us today..." and read it!

[juj]

Originally Posted by alicenevada

You think so? Then what is your opinion of Exodus 32:4-10 in which the ancient nation of Israel created a 'day for Jehovah' by using pagan practices surrounding, but changing the name. Why was God not honored?

While we use the basis of the old covenant, the true Christian context, which Jesus declared, is the new covenant. Move on already!