Feel at Home with the Christian Faith but not the Christian Church?

[Dave_n_Tenn]

Originally Posted by Chef Boyardee

No one gets to choose what is going on in the church; it is the way it is. Look at Answers In Genesis. They teach that Astronomy, to their apparent surprise, proves Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Naturally, they fail to mention, either Relativity or The Bible is bogus. Still, they claim to be its' defenders

I do not agree with " no one gets to choose what's going on in the church" or " it is the way it is". I do agree however, some churches do function this way, and as a result they produce only headstones when in fact they should be producing hero's.

We all have a "say" by how we live and give good witness to others. Church is all of us... and as such we should respond to the needs of others. Each of us is a steward of what is given, irregardless of your belief system... mine just happens to be a Christian.

"It's always been this way "suggests a monument with no life, while a living body (the church), in all it's imperfection, screams in new birth, cultivates growth and thereby is a product of change. Life reproduces itself... or it's dead. In fact... a perfect church might suggest a body of believers who are dead.... if what you see is "perfect' people... your either in heaven or sitting among a group of unrighteous hypocrites.

I have no idea what your saying in the other part of your post.... and it's probably me... so expound a bit.

[Carico]

Originally Posted by mmmc

How many non-practicing Christians do you suppose there are? Why do so many people identify themselves as Christian but do not actively participate at a church?

Even with the best of intentions, things can go awry. Has the church lost its way? Do most Christian churches reflect the core tenants of Jesus in their actions and posture? What has your experience been?

Do you agree with the assertions made on this site: www.nonpracticingchristian.com ?

The answer is simple; there was a survey in the newspaper last summer of people in mainline churches that showed that 83% of people who call themselves Christians don't believe that Jesus is the only way to God. And 57% of evangelicals deny that Jesus is the only way to God. So over 3/4's of people who call themselves Christians in mainline churches are wolves in sheep's clothing and over half of evangelicals are false Christians as well.



But Jesus prophesied this in MT. 24:10 and it's going to get worse.

[Dave_n_Tenn]

Originally Posted by Carico

The answer is simple; there was a survey in the newspaper last summer of people in mainline churches that showed that 83% of people who call themselves Christians don't believe that Jesus is the only way to God. And 57% of evangelicals deny that Jesus is the only way to God. So over 3/4's of people who call themselves Christians in mainline churches are wolves in sheep's clothing and over half of evangelicals are false Christians as well.



But Jesus prophesied this in MT. 24:10 and it's going to get worse.

People can be "wrong" or do not "understand" and not be wolves or false Christians. It takes time to grasp all that the Gospel entails, wisdom and understanding doesn't come all at once. I suspect these number change over time as we consume more "meat" ... but I do agree it is the responsibility of the church to provide the food each of us need that we are able to digest.... and we don't feed steak to babies.

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

I do not agree with " no one gets to choose what's going on in the church" or " it is the way it is". I do agree however, some churches do function this way, and as a result they produce only headstones when in fact they should be producing hero's.

We all have a "say" by how we live and give good witness to others. Church is all of us... and as such we should respond to the needs of others. Each of us is a steward of what is given, irregardless of your belief system... mine just happens to be a Christian.

"It's always been this way "suggests a monument with no life, while a living body (the church), in all it's imperfection, screams in new birth, cultivates growth and thereby is a product of change. Life reproduces itself... or it's dead. In fact... a perfect church might suggest a body of believers who are dead.... if what you see is "perfect' people... your either in heaven or sitting among a group of unrighteous hypocrites.

I have no idea what your saying in the other part of your post.... and it's probably me... so expound a bit.

It seems like you might be saying, the church is evolving into whatever and that is o.k. Sounds New Agey to me and at best, Agnostic.

Given that, I'm not sure the post that followed would mean much to you.

In regards to perfection, it isn't all or nothing; it is a matter of degrees and Ozzie represents a reaction to profound hypocrisy. So, it isn't about "perfection" or "growing pains;" it is about faithfulness, duty, honor and the apparent lack of it, in our churches. AIG preaching Relativity is an example of that; you don't appear to have understood that.

[Arne21]

Hi! I'm new to City-Data and to the terminology used. So, please bear with me. I'd like to reply specifically to Wilvan's posted dated 1-24-2009. But I don't know if this quick reply is the best way.

I appreciated Wilvan's reference to the Greek word "ekklesia" and to his quote of Rev 20:4-6. I would like to contribute some thoughts to this discussion but I don't know whether I ought to clear with the sub-forum moderator in order to be recognized as an person interested in joining this sub-forum. So, before I do anything else, can someone give me a few guidelines on how a forum works. I've been experimenting and finding out by trial and error, but that's time consuming. So, I'll wait to hear from someone in this sub-forum before contributing my thoughts. Thanks.

PS What does "Quote message in reply" mean? Whose or what message would be quoted if I checked the box under "Options" labeled "Quote message in reply?" Thanks again.

[Dave_n_Tenn]

Originally Posted by Chef Boyardee

It seems like you might be saying, the church is evolving into whatever and that is o.k. Sounds New Agey to me and at best, Agnostic.

Given that, I'm not sure the post that followed would mean much to you.

In regards to perfection, it isn't all or nothing; it is a matter of degrees and Ozzie represents a reaction to profound hypocrisy. So, it isn't about "perfection" or "growing pains;" it is about faithfulness, duty, honor and the apparent lack of it, in our churches. AIG preaching Relativity is an example of that; you don't appear to have understood that.

For the record I'm neither new "agye" or agnostic. Please refrain from given titles to others... reserve that right for yourself.

No it's not OK for church "evolution" to be a chaoctic series of uncontroled events... all churches should have organization but function as an organizm,with Christ as the head. I'm sure your aware we are a "body" and should function as one, and all that it would imply, pain, emotion, anger, sadness... and I agree it is a matter of degrees which would imply "maturity", not actually reaching "perfection"... and my post did not suggest that. I think we are on the same page here.

You are correct about faithfulness, duty and honor but it's much, much more than that... and when connected to a body of believers each of us is more likely to be repentive, accountable, and transparent.

Service marks the leadership of a church, and therefore our own "reasonable service" ...is what?

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

For the record I'm neither new "agye" or agnostic. Please refrain from given titles to others... reserve that right for yourself.

No it's not OK for church "evolution" to be a chaoctic series of uncontroled events... all churches should have organization but function as an organizm,with Christ as the head. I'm sure your aware we are a "body" and should function as one, and all that it would imply, pain, emotion, anger, sadness... and I agree it is a matter of degrees which would imply "maturity", not actually reaching "perfection"... and my post did not suggest that. I think we are on the same page here.

You are correct about faithfulness, duty and honor but it's much, much more than that... and when connected to a body of believers each of us is more likely to be repentive, accountable, and transparent.

Service marks the leadership of a church, and therefore our own "reasonable service" ...is what?

I don't think we are on the same page. Your attitude seems to be: don't talk about what's wrong. I think that attitude is enabling.

[Michelle1210]

There are many reasons.......
The music is too loud, too contemporary, to many hymns, sings off key,
I didn't get fed ( cant even feed themselves)
Easily offended
The preacher is too young, to old to fat to thin......wife is too pretty,to plain, too fat, too thin, cant play the piano, didn't smile at me or say hi, doesn't teach Sunday school or do womens bible studies
didn't like the doctrine
I didn't get invited out to lunch
didn't call me when I was sick
Asked for money
preached too much about sin
didn't preach enough on sin
some are too shy


We live in a society, where we don't have to be committed, so there is no chance of developing roots, church hoppers are always being uprooted, never maturing, or being responsible for one another, the word teaches us to owe man nothing but love.

Psa 122:1 I was glad when they said to me, "Let us go to the house of the LORD."