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Old 12-27-2008, 02:37 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 14,511,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
THEY said they were. Why would I doubt it? That they didn't follow the word of of MY God is irrelevant. They committed those atrocities in the name of Jesus.
Doesn't matter if they think they did, does the bible support such actions? No!

Quote:
Actually bicameralism's roots are found in Greek and Roman and Indian histories. None of which were Christian. I would challenge your claim that human rights were inherent to Christianity to say that western society developed the concept of human rights despite Christianity, not because of it. The reverence for other life (naturally extended to other people) originates more with the Pagans than it does with Christians. In the Pagan faiths they recognize that we share the world with other life forms. In the Christian faith we were taught to have dominion over other life, which has been perverted to a belief that other life (and natural resources) should be exploited for profit.....and not just profit to achieve physical security, but excessive profits to achieve wasteful lifestyles.
Really? India? Have you heard what is going on in Orissa State? As a black man who lived in 3 countries I just don't see evidence of this. America’s founding fathers put it well: “all men are created equal . . . endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.” Such a statement accords well with Scripture. The Bible says that man is created in the image of God. Where are all the Pagans to help Christians combat human rights abuses and to promote the welfare of all people. As they preach the Gospel around the world, they are digging wells, planting crops, giving clothes, dispensing medicine, and providing education for the destitute?

Quote:
In fact, from the the Crusades to giving smallpox infested blankets to native Americans, from the 100 Year War to the Irish wars, the Christian Church has a lot to atone for. No other religion, with the possible exception of Muslim, has so perverted their own scripture to wreck more havoc on their fellow man and their fellow believers.
People who pervert scripture to fit their own selfish needs or agenda are NOT Christians and they will face God on judgment day. There are many, many, many good true Christians out there who have done the will of God such as help freeing my ancestors.
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:11 AM
 
Location: Palmer
2,519 posts, read 6,999,882 times
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Christians should be more involved in politics. If christians just voted it would make a huge difference in this country. The voting participation by christians is still dismal in my opinion. All christians need to do is vote, its not that hard.
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Old 12-28-2008, 04:58 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 7,192,284 times
Reputation: 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Those people were not following the word of God.

It was Christianity that created this govenment. Look at many of the governments in the world who have no Christian influence whatsoever and the atrocities they have commited, "human rights" what's that?

Christianity has shown and proven to the world the value IN human life.
Uhm actually no

Look at SA and the atrocities committed under the apartheid system which was "christian" based.

We are now a secular society and better off in that there is a separation of church and state.

Christianity nor Islam have good track records hence the fear of the rest of any type of theocracy.

It would be nice to see you folk actually form a Christian party and run for office. That will settle the argument once and for all how the people think.

We have a Christian party here that musters up a ±3% support base and it is black.
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Old 12-28-2008, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 16,925,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Doesn't matter if they think they did, does the bible support such actions? No!
THEY said it did, and acted on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
.......America’s founding fathers put it well: “all men are created equal . . . endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.” Such a statement accords well with Scripture.
Which was stated when slavery was legal......and supported by Christians and Scripture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Where are all the Pagans to help Christians combat human rights abuses and to promote the welfare of all people.
They are there, they simply have learned to keep their faith to themselves......trying to share with Christians will get you assaulted by a Bible wielding zealot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
People who pervert scripture to fit their own selfish needs or agenda are NOT Christians and they will face God on judgment day.
In your opinion. Remember, it was the Bible that was used to justify slavery......and that was done by the church elders, not by some vagrant offshoot. In fact, it was the offshoots, the heretics, that forced the issue to the point that slavery was abolished. People like the Quakers and their strange, heretical beliefs did more to abolish slavery than any Baptist, Methodist, or Catholic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
There are many, many, many good true Christians out there who have done the will of God such as help freeing my ancestors.
Just not too many mainstream Christians,
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:03 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 14,511,260 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
THEY said it did, and acted on it.

Doesn't matter, it is what scripture says and true Christians knew the truth.

Which was stated when slavery was legal......and supported by Christians and Scripture.
That was wrong but it is easier said than done, there was alot of politics involved not to mention a lot of money. Here you say pushing your beliefs is wrong but then you slam them for allowing slavery?? and slavery is not supported by scripture. True Christians did not support slavery.

Quote:
They are there, they simply have learned to keep their faith to themselves......trying to share with Christians will get you assaulted by a Bible wielding zealot.
Ya right, where? and assaulted by who? come on

Quote:
In your opinion. Remember, it was the Bible that was used to justify slavery......and that was done by the church elders, not by some vagrant offshoot. In fact, it was the offshoots, the heretics, that forced the issue to the point that slavery was abolished. People like the Quakers and their strange, heretical beliefs did more to abolish slavery than any Baptist, Methodist, or Catholic.
Dude if I wanted to prove spinning a top on a Sunday while balancing myself on one hand is a sin, I could easily do that but does that make it right? NO!!

There were many Christains from different denominations who did not support nor agree with slavery.

Quote:
Just not too many mainstream Christians
Dude your animosity and bias is evident not to mention this liberal view is weak and misguided- your hatred of anglo imperialism has gone beyond naivtivity to think that the people who were conquered were some how innocent themselves, the gospel is so much more. If you really want to get hard core. I believe God allowed slavery and as hard as it was for my ancestors I thank him for it because it took my heritage out of Africa. Africa is one messed up continent. I thank God everyday that I was not born there and facing the hardships many Africans are going through today.

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 12-28-2008 at 10:30 AM..
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:07 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 14,511,260 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
Uhm actually no

Look at SA and the atrocities committed under the apartheid system which was "christian" based.

We are now a secular society and better off in that there is a separation of church and state.

Christianity nor Islam have good track records hence the fear of the rest of any type of theocracy.

It would be nice to see you folk actually form a Christian party and run for office. That will settle the argument once and for all how the people think.

We have a Christian party here that musters up a ±3% support base and it is black.
Come on......apartheid? Dude you can do better. Do you know how many churches rebuked apartheid? The bible is clear! the bible will not support slavery, apartheid or any other nonsensical accusation against the bible and people who do wicked things under the false pretense of Christianity.
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Old 12-28-2008, 01:20 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 7,192,284 times
Reputation: 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Come on......apartheid? Dude you can do better. Do you know how many churches rebuked apartheid? The bible is clear! the bible will not support slavery, apartheid or any other nonsensical accusation against the bible and people who do wicked things under the false pretense of Christianity.
But you painted with a broad brush all secular governments being "evil" yet all I did was point out what happened here in a post apartheid system which is secular.

And BTW, the biggest sponsor of the apartheid era was your beloved USA - Ripleys believe it or not - and guess who was the number two? Ya guessed it - Israel.

As for all the false pretenses, it has unfortunately been the Christians that have perpetrated these crimes against humanity - you cannot simply diss what happened.

It also does not help to wave the real christian (tm) flag as they too thought they were true Christians justifying their actions from the self same bible.

We are already 14 years beyond that past - you folk have yet to start.
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Romeoville, IL
1,242 posts, read 2,454,010 times
Reputation: 516
If I had the choice, America would be run by the Vatican.
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Old 12-28-2008, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,810,765 times
Reputation: 634
First, I am sorry but the Vatican was the problem in Europe when the Founders started this country.

As for all the atrocities attributed to Christianity we must look at the fruit of these atrocities. If what they did contradicts the scriptures then they are apostate and not true Christians. This is why I said the Vatican was the problem in Europe. Now I do not have a problem with Catholics but I do have a problem with traditions that contradict the Bible. Not all Catholics follow the Vatican and are therefore considered non Catholic if they are found out. But the atrocities performed in the name of Christ should have sent up red flags like crazy that it was not true Christians but apostates. We know that the scriptures were kept from the common man for centuries and they were forced to believe whatever the Church told them to believe, this is not Christian. Christ wanted all to know His word and share in His word and not be kept in the Dark. Satan knew He would not change the word of God, but if he could hide it and make up his own false Christianity, that is what he did. Like I said it is not a Catholic thing or a Christian thing, the atrocities perpetrated by the apostates have smeared the truth with lies.

The Biblical view of slavery is like that of employees and not property.
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Old 12-28-2008, 06:14 PM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,233 posts, read 9,456,559 times
Reputation: 3133
Quote:
Originally posted by Aaronk
If I had the choice, America would be run by the Vatican.
Aaron, with all due respect, our ancestors gave the Catholic Church that opportunity in the Middle Ages, and it was a disaster. The church abused it's power and the Lord took it away, as he should have. The church has made strides since then, but their conduct during that time should be a lesson to ALL of us of the dangers of a christian theocracy. If I were a european I wouldn't trust the church (Protestant or Catholic) with secular power if you paid me a million euros.
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