Jesus is Not God according to the Bible (translate, Isaiah, prophecy)

[JHolt88]

It sounds to me like you my friends have either misinterpreted the Bible or just not as knowledgable as you should be. I saw the quotes you took from the bible were Jesus says the Father is greater than him. Don't you find that interesting how they share glory the Father is always wanting to glorify the son and the son always does everything he can to bring glory to the Father thats is why the only way to heaven is through the son. I'm sure you didn't know this but there is an refferance or example of Jesus in all the old testiment books. For example the tabernacle is the tent that the isralites built in the wilderness after leaving eygpt. This is also the picture of salvation. Jesus is refferanced in the tent by the 3 peices of furniture. The lampstand(Jesus is the light of the world) which has to filled with oil(this is a repersentation of Jesus vbeing filled with the Holy spirit after he was baptised) You also the the table for bread offering where the priest would gather around and eat the bread(Jesus is the bread of life)(holy communion this is my body that was broken for you take and eat) Last peice is the inscent alter witch is right in front of the curtain where Gods presents was(Jesus is the interceder)in this tent where God dwelled with the people the closes you could get was that alter or the Son. Outside is no different when you enter the camp there is only one gate or way in(sound firmilar there is only one way to heaven) you walk throught this gate and immidetly come to the alter for sacrifices(you must be forgivin for your sins before you can go further) then you come to the laver(which is a repersentation of baptism) then you may enter the tent that i spoke of earlier. This is the picture of salvation. Its in the book of exodus 2000 years before Jesus even came to earth.

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[markymarc]

Jesus demonstrated the Resurrection and Ascension and is a God free being. He gave the example that we can all follow.

[garya123]

Originally Posted by samankaru

Many people misunderstand the Bible; they feel that the belief in Jesus as God is so widespread that it must have come from the Bible. This article shows quite conclusively that the Bible does not teach that.


The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is not God. In the Bible God is always someone else other than Jesus.
Some will say that something Jesus said or something he did while on the earth proves that he is God. We will show that the disciples never came to the conclusion that Jesus is God. And those are people who lived and walked with Jesus and thus knew first hand what he said and did. Furthermore, we are told in the Acts of the Apostles in the Bible that the disciples were being guided by the Holy Spirit. If Jesus is God, surely they should know it. But they did not. They kept worshipping the one true God who was worshipped by Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (see Acts 3:13).


All of the writers of the Bible believed that God was not Jesus. The idea that Jesus is God did not become part of Christian belief until after the Bible was written, and took many centuries to become part of the faith of Christians.
Matthew, Mark, and Luke, authors of the first three Gospels, believed that Jesus was not God (see Mark 10:18 and Matthew 19:17). They believed that he was the son of God in the sense of a righteous person. Many others too, are similarly called sons of God (see Matthew 23:1-9).


Paul, believed to be the author of some thirteen or fourteen letters in the Bible, also believed that Jesus is not God. For Paul, God first created Jesus, then used Jesus as the agent by which to create the rest of creation (see Colossians 1:15 and 1 Corinthians 8:6). Similar ideas are found in the letter to the Hebrews, and also in the Gospel and Letters of John composed some seventy years after Jesus. In all of these writings, however, Jesus is still a creature of God and is therefore forever subservient to God (see 1 Corinthians 15:28).
Now, because Paul, John, and the author of Hebrews believed that Jesus was God's first creature, some of what they wrote clearly show that Jesus was a pre-existent powerful being. This is often misunderstood to mean that he must have been God. But to say that Jesus was God is to go against what these very authors wrote. Although these authors had this later belief that Jesus is greater than all creatures, they also believed that he was still lesser than God. In fact, John quotes Jesus as saying: "...the Father is greater than I." (John 14:28). And Paul declares that the head of every woman is her husband, the head of every man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God (see 1 Corinthians 11:3).
Therefore, to find something in these writings and claim that these teach that Jesus is God is to misuse and misquote what those authors are saying. What they wrote must be understood in the context of their belief that Jesus is a creature of God as they have already clearly said.


So we see then, that some of the later writers had a higher view of Jesus, but none of the writers of the Bible believed that Jesus is God. The Bible clearly teaches that there is only one true God, the one whom Jesus worshipped (see John 17: 3).


If you need any more proofs let me know

IS 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government [of the Kingdom of God] shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

JN 16:15 "All things that the Father has are Mine: therefore said I, that He [the Holy Spirit] shall take of Mine, and shall shew it unto you. JN 14:9 "Jesus said unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet have you not known Me, Philip? he that has seen Me has seen the Father; and why say you then, Show us the Father." The inward part of Christ is the Father/God if we can see like Jesus meant for us to "see" by the Spirit. It is written, "No man can call Jesus the Lord but by the Spirit."

If we know who resides in Christ then we know the Father. He fullfiled Isaiah 9:6 by saying the Father is within. No one can know the Father apart from Jesus! One may realize there is a God but to know Him as the Father who leads us as adopted sons, can only be through the Son.

JN 14:28 "You have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for My Father is greater than I."
Contradiction? No! The "the Word was made flesh" is the external manifestation of God as the Son confined to time and space for our benefit because we live in time and space. Christ as Son of Man is only less in that sense.
But in Spirit, "all that the Father has" is His and therefor He is God. JN 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self [there is no greater glory] with the glory which I had with you before the world was."

[ancient warrior]

[quote=ShanaBrown;6746075]>>Hi, I believe that Jesus is the Word made flesh, the exact image or representation of the invisible God,<<

QUESTION:

How can something visible be the "exact image" of something that is invisible ( ie., that has no image)?



>> reveals the invisible God, is the Son of God, has the right to be called God because God gave Him this right. God the Father gave Him the name above every name that at/in the name of Jesus every knee should bow. God the Father gave Him all authority. All things came into being through Jesus but all is out of the Father. <<

QUESTION:

If God had to give Jesus authority, then Jesus is not "co-equal" to the Father, is he?



>>Jesus came forth from the Father, was sent by the Father, returned to the Father. He is to be subjected to the Father. The Father is greater that He is. When we "look" at Jesus, we "see" the invisible God.<<

QUESTIONS:

1. If Jesus is "subjected" to the father, Jesus is not co-equal to the Father, is he?

2. How can we "see" something invisible that has no image?



>>Does absolute Deity have a Deity? Does absolute Deity worship another Deity? Is absolute Deity subject to another Deity? The Son will be subjected to the Father and this , for example, lets me know that one is Supreme.<<

QUESTION:

If so, then the claim of a Trinity with three co-equal persons is fallacious, isn't it?

[markymarc]

[quote=ancient warrior;26614302]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

>>Hi, I believe that Jesus is the Word made flesh, the exact image or representation of the invisible God,<<

QUESTION:

How can something visible be the "exact image" of something that is invisible ( ie., that has no image)?

QUESTION:

If so, then the claim of a Trinity with three co-equal persons is fallacious, isn't it?

The portrait of the I AM shows the "exact image" of how Jesus is the Son of the Father, the I AM:
I AM Presence - God Self - Great I AM

[Manuel0707]

Beleiving Jesus is God is blasphemy and an insult to God himself. The original Christian beleif, even tho I disagree with beleif, was that he was the Son of God. NOT god himself.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by Manuel0707

Beleiving Jesus is God is blasphemy and an insult to God himself. The original Christian beleif, even tho I disagree with beleif, was that he was the Son of God. NOT god himself.

You've got that backwards. Denying that Jesus is God is blasphemy and dishonors Jesus. The Bible is absolutely clear that Jesus is God. He is the Second Person of the Trinity. God exists as three Persons who are a united One.

Jesus' title as the 'Son of God' means that He is God, just as His title as the 'Son of Man' refers to His humanity and Messiahship.

Jesus Christ is fully God as stated in John 1:1, and fully man as stated in John 1:14.

As well, Phil. 2:5-6 states that Jesus existed as God, while Phil 2:7-8 states that Jesus became man.

Col. 1:16-17 states that all things were created by Jesus and that He holds all things together, while John 1:3 states that apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

The Messiah (Jesus) is called the Mighty God in Isaiah 9:6, while in Isaiah 10:21, the phrase the mighty God is clearly used for God. Isaiah understood that the Messiah was to be God.

[mercy777]

Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA

I believe the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God.

Amen!


Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

God Bless,
Mercy

[Griffis]

Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA

Colossians 1:15 "Christ is the visible image of invisible God. He existed before God made anything at all and is supreme over all creation."
To me this is one of the strongest statements in the Bible that proves Jesus is not only equal to God, but He is God...

But this is just some stuff Paul allegedly wrote in a letter. What does anything Paul allegedly say "prove" about anything?

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by garya123

IS 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government [of the Kingdom of God] shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

In the original Hebrew it does not say this...It says that He will be a wonderful counsellor, a mighty warrior, everlating ruler of peace...It says nothing about father or God in that passage...The word that has been translated as 'God' is gibbor...

H1368
גּבּר גּבּור
gibbôr gibbôr
ghib-bore', ghib-bore'
Intensive from the same as H1397; powerful; by implication warrior, tyrant: - champion, chief, X excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one), strong (man), valiant man.

H410
אל
'êl
ale
Shortened from H352; strength; as adjective mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity): - God (god), X goodly, X great, idol, might (-y one), power, strong. Compare names in "-el."

In Isaiah 9:5 (Eng v. 6), one title for the Messianic King is El Gibbor. This phrase raises a quandary how to translate it. Gibbor, as a noun, means a mighty man, hero or warrior. Its related noun gever is a strong man, often in battle. If Gibbor is a noun in this verse, the most literal rendering of El Gibbor would be "God Warrior."
However, since gibbor can also be an adjective (= mighty, strong, valiant), most English translations render El Gibbor as "Mighty God." (In Hebrew the adjective usually follows its noun.)
But El can also perform adjectival service. Its root meaning is might or power, so too it can denote something that is powerful, mighty, or divine. El Gibbor could mean "Divine (El) Warrior (Gibbor)" or "Mighty (El) Hero (Gibbor)."

In 7:14 Isaiah uses another messianic title: "Behold, the virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call his name Immanu-El" — that is, "With-us-is El" (cf. 8:8). In 8:10 "Immanu-El" is a statement, not a name: "Devise a plan but it will be thwarted; state a proposal but it will not stand, for God is with us." - Hebrew Streams: Elohim in Context: Details

And here is an interesting passage:

Isa 7:14 So, The Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold! The virgin will conceive and will bring forth a son; and she shall call His name Immanuel.

Isa 7:15 He shall eat curds and honey until He knows to refuse the evil and choose the good.

Why, if Yeshua was born as HaShem, would He need to LEARN to refuse the evil and CHOOSE the good?...

Originally Posted by garya123

JN 16:15 "All things that the Father has are Mine: therefore said I, that He [the Holy Spirit] shall take of Mine, and shall shew it unto you. JN 14:9 "Jesus said unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet have you not known Me, Philip? he that has seen Me has seen the Father; and why say you then, Show us the Father." The inward part of Christ is the Father/God if we can see like Jesus meant for us to "see" by the Spirit. It is written, "No man can call Jesus the Lord but by the Spirit."

This is why Yeshua said that:

Mat 28:18 And coming up Jesus talked with them, saying, All authority in Heaven and on earth was given to Me.
Which would imply that it was not His before it was given to Him...By who was it given?...