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Old 07-06-2009, 10:55 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,173,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeapostle View Post
So the LORD RETURNS TWICE?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeapostle View Post
Millennialism is chiliasm, and has been condemned os HERETICAL throughout the history of the church.
Exactly. Millennialism (for many centuries) has been considered heretical because it requires two returns plus not to mention other issues.
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:09 AM
 
Location: Chicago, Illinois
396 posts, read 515,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Exactly. Millennialism (for many centuries) has been considered heretical because it requires two returns plus not to mention other issues.
Thanks, I agree
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Old 12-25-2009, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Queen City / Atlanta, TEXAS
32 posts, read 29,930 times
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Cool THE second time

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeapostle View Post
So the LORD RETURNS TWICE?
Yes, the Lord will return twice.

Hebrews 9:28 (actually 27&28) is the only passage in the scripture that mentions "the second time" he will appear. He has already appeared once, (I think we can all agree) in the flesh, born of a virgin, "Merry Christmas" (sort of, e-mail me for an explanation).

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The problem with believing in "only" a post-tribulation appearance is that the scripture details that appearance as distinctly different. At the appearance of Jesus "the second time" (described by scripture, "you can look it up") he will only appear to those that are looking for him. At the final appearance (the glorious appearance) at the end of the great tribulation period, he will be seen by every single living person on the entire globe.

Second Appearance (The Rapture)
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear "the second time" without sin unto salvation.

Final Appearance (The Glorious Appearing)
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Two distinct and separate comings. The gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke detail the Great Tribulation in the Olivet Discourse, and describe the final appearance in this manner, "after the tribulation of those days". However, all three allude to the possibility of avoiding this terrible time, but Luke pins it down for us as a warning.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

One final thought, Jesus discribed two distinct comings of himself to the world by his own mouth.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. 22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

“One of the days of the Son of man” is a direct indication of more than one, confirmed by the rest of the scripture in its descriptions as two, beginning and ending the time known as The Great Tribulation Period.

RevJWWhiteJr / revjwwhitejr@aol.com
Author : The Partial Rapture "Theory" E X P L A I N E D
partialrapture.net
[SIZE=5][SIZE=5][SIZE=5][/SIZE]
[SIZE=5][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[/SIZE]

Last edited by RevJWWhiteJr; 12-25-2009 at 08:26 AM..
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Old 12-25-2009, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Queen City / Atlanta, TEXAS
32 posts, read 29,930 times
Reputation: 13
Cool What ??

What, no Avatar?

???
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Old 12-25-2009, 09:08 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,173,496 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevJWWhiteJr View Post
Yes, the Lord will return twice.
Matthew 24:37
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Where there two floods? ............no.

Where there two judgements ....... no

Where there two chances for unbelievers ............. no

Is millennialism scriptural ............. no

Was millennialism once considered heretical ...... yes
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Old 12-25-2009, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Chicago, Illinois
396 posts, read 515,760 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevJWWhiteJr View Post
Yes, the Lord will return twice.

Hebrews 9:28 (actually 27&28) is the only passage in the scripture that mentions "the second time" he will appear. He has already appeared once, (I think we can all agree) in the flesh, born of a virgin, "Merry Christmas" (sort of, e-mail me for an explanation).

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The problem with believing in "only" a post-tribulation appearance is that the scripture details that appearance as distinctly different. At the appearance of Jesus "the second time" (described by scripture, "you can look it up") he will only appear to those that are looking for him. At the final appearance (the glorious appearance) at the end of the great tribulation period, he will be seen by every single living person on the entire globe.

Second Appearance (The Rapture)
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear "the second time" without sin unto salvation.

Final Appearance (The Glorious Appearing)
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Two distinct and separate comings. The gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke detail the Great Tribulation in the Olivet Discourse, and describe the final appearance in this manner, "after the tribulation of those days". However, all three allude to the possibility of avoiding this terrible time, but Luke pins it down for us as a warning.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

One final thought, Jesus discribed two distinct comings of himself to the world by his own mouth.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. 22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

“One of the days of the Son of man” is a direct indication of more than one, confirmed by the rest of the scripture in its descriptions as two, beginning and ending the time known as The Great Tribulation Period.

RevJWWhiteJr / revjwwhitejr@aol.com
Author : The Partial Rapture "Theory" E X P L A I N E D
partialrapture.net
[SIZE=5][SIZE=5][SIZE=5][/SIZE]
[SIZE=5][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[/SIZE]

Why didnt you highlight "they also that PIERCED HIM? (Rev.1:7)" Oh I know why, BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL DEAD!
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Old 12-26-2009, 05:33 AM
 
Location: Queen City / Atlanta, TEXAS
32 posts, read 29,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeapostle View Post
Why didnt you highlight "they also that PIERCED HIM? (Rev.1:7)" Oh I know why, BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL DEAD!


Several scholars believe the phrase "those that pierced him" is referring to the Roman Empire which is directly responsible for his crucifixion. That empire will be revived and functioning during the Glorious Appearing.
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Old 12-26-2009, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Queen City / Atlanta, TEXAS
32 posts, read 29,930 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Matthew 24:37
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Where there two floods? ............no.
Where there two judgements ....... no
Where there two chances for unbelievers ............. no
Is millennialism scriptural ............. no
Was millennialism once considered heretical ...... yes
There are two sets of illustrations in the New Testament using Noah as an example. One includes Lot and mentions destruction, the other omits Lot and destruction.

The passage you quote (v. 37 of Matt. 24) follows verse 36. Destruction is not mentioned in these verses which will be the case after the glorious appearing.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

The return of Jesus at the Glorious Appearing is accompanied by many signs prior to its occurring. There is only one "interpretational" sign that did have to occure before the Rapture. The fig tree (Israel) blossoming (re-established as a Nation in their own land, 1948) Beyond that, no one knows the time. We wait for his "second appearance" just as Noah and his family waited inside the ark for the flood to arrive, (after they had entered) and knew not the exact moment of its occurance untill it did, and they were "taken away" in safety. So shall it be with the coming of the son of man. Revealing of Christ is not mentioned in these passages, (the Glorious Appearing) as it is mentioned in the passage which includes Lot and the destruction to come, just as it will.

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then, a description of the separation of believers (Most pre-tribbers believe this to be the saved taken and the lost left behind, but unbelievers are never mentioned in these passages, hence the omission of the destruction.) one taken the other left. Then the ever present warning that agrees with Luke 21:34-36, Watch because we do not know when it will occure.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Then the passages that mention the destruction at his revealing, which incidently is not mentioned in the Olivet Discourse.

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Two different comings. And actually, Luke 17 is one of the most fascinating Rapture passages because we are told (not the exact time mind you) but the window in which it will occure.

Luke 17:31 In that day, ("the day", "the great tribulation") he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night (the night the preceeds the day, always. Just as the evening and the morning of creation. The Jewish day begins with sundown. The Rapture.) there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Queen City / Atlanta, TEXAS
32 posts, read 29,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinyHappyLucy View Post
I know you didn't ask me, but I have to say that this is a good point. I'll admit I don't really hold a position either way. Until coming to this board, I had never heard of preterism so am now starting to study it for myself. I have nothing constructive to add to this thread but wanted to say that I got saved when I stumbled upon the show Jack Van Impe Presents late one night. I watched a few times, and everything he said regarding end times and scripture made sense to me. I then went out and bought a Bible and started reading it and remember very clearly reading Matthew 24. I was familiar with the teachings through the JVI program but had never actually read it myself. My first thought was, "How funny that it sounds like Jesus is addressing His disciples but He's really addressing us!" I never gave it a second thought till coming to this board. Now I plan to really study it for myself.

Lucy
I do not hold to all of the teachings of JVI, but you have made an honest start of the study of the scripture.
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Old 12-27-2009, 01:58 AM
 
Location: Florida
595 posts, read 740,094 times
Reputation: 266
It appears we are to be "caught up" prior to tribulation chronologically also known as pre-trib. Why?because tribuulation is not intended for the body /believers in Christ/church, but rather is the judgement on Israel and gentile unbelievers. Mid trib (3.5 years just before antichrist creates a false covenant with Israel) and Post trib (as Jesus trumphets His return or 2nd coming) All senario's have possibilities. God has kept this a secret I believe to send a message that we need to be prepared
spiritually on-going so the timeline become moot. I hope we are raptured prior to trib (a 7 year period of extreme famine and hardship.)

Last edited by DASULAR17; 12-27-2009 at 02:01 AM.. Reason: format
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