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Old 12-29-2008, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 3,790,923 times
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Robin said in another thread..."Many believe there will be a rapture while many do not. Many believe that certain signs have been fulfilled while other believe they have all been fulfilled.

Me, I am still searching and believe there are alot of good theories out there."

Me too. I have always believed that most of Revelation has been fulfilled. With so much talk about the rapture and end times in here lately, I would like for someone, anyone, to tell me what it is they believe the rapture is, and why they feel they will know when Jesus will return.

Thanks!
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:53 PM
 
5,495 posts, read 4,399,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
Robin said in another thread..."Many believe there will be a rapture while many do not. Many believe that certain signs have been fulfilled while other believe they have all been fulfilled.

Me, I am still searching and believe there are alot of good theories out there."

Me too. I have always believed that most of Revelation has been fulfilled. With so much talk about the rapture and end times in here lately, I would like for someone, anyone, to tell me what it is they believe the rapture is, and why they feel they will know when Jesus will return.

Thanks!
The rapture is part of the first resurrection (which happens at the end of the Trib. and before the Mill.- it is for those who are alive and remain at the coming (parousia) of our Lord.

Jesus will return at the end of the tribulation - this is clear in the Scriptures.
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,899,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
The rapture is part of the first resurrection (which happens at the end of the Trib. and before the Mill.- it is for those who are alive and remain at the coming (parousia) of our Lord.

Jesus will return at the end of the tribulation - this is clear in the Scriptures.
I am not going to debate you on this but I do have a question. There are many verses that have the lord declaring that the faithful will be saved from the tribulation, can we really come up with a definite conclusion of when the rapture will occur without contradicting scripture? What would the purpose be to rapture just before the Mill.?

I have studied several different perspectives on the rapture and honestly I just do not know for sure when it will happen but I do choose to be alert and am willing to suffer if need be.
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:06 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,592,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
The rapture is part of the first resurrection (which happens at the end of the Trib. and before the Mill.- it is for those who are alive and remain at the coming (parousia) of our Lord.

Jesus will return at the end of the tribulation - this is clear in the Scriptures.
Yes the first resurrection is spoken of here:

Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be
changed.

I wrote about the word 'we' in the other thread.See below:

Interesting remark. Let me add some food for thought here...

Mr 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Notice something very interesting here. The angels are gathering His elect from heaven and from earth.

2 Thess. 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

His return at the 7th trump.

1 Thess. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not *prevent them which are asleep.

*prevent means to preceed or go before.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall *rise first:

*rise means to resurrect.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I content the 'we' and the 'our' is the 'elect' in both
Mr 13:272 and Thess. 2:1. So that is why Paul used the word 'we.' He was the 'elect' of his time and the 'elect' who are gathered at the 7th trump would also be called 'we,'... i. e. the elect.

BTW. I don't believe Paul taught a rapture as it is presented in most churches. I believe he taught a gathering of the elect from both heaven (the dead in Christ) and the elect (alive and remain) when He descends ( means to step down) to the earth and these elect, both will *meet Him and escort Him back to the earth.

*meet has the meaning of a delegation going out to meet a dignatary and escorting him home.


also when one steps down they don't stop 1/2 way or reverse their direction.
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:08 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,592,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
I am not going to debate you on this but I do have a question. There are many verses that have the lord declaring that the faithful will be saved from the tribulation, can we really come up with a definite conclusion of when the rapture will occur without contradicting scripture? What would the purpose be to rapture just before the Mill.?

I have studied several different perspectives on the rapture and honestly I just do not know for sure when it will happen but I do choose to be alert and am willing to suffer if need be.
Quote:
There are many verses that have the lord declaring that the faithful will be saved from the tribulation,
Hi Robin,
Could you give me a couple examples of which Scriptures you mean so I see where you're coming from? Thx.

Edited to add...Sorry I see I didn't answer your question.

Quote:
What would the purpose be to rapture just before the Mill
Well, my answer to that would be...we aren't going to be 'raptured' from the earth. Yes, we will be seized, snatched by the angels and gathered back to Jesus, but that will happen in the air right above the earth. Then we will descend down with Him and He will set up His Mill. kingdom. There is of course more to it than that, but that is the long and short of it.
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Old 02-16-2009, 04:08 PM
 
410 posts, read 934,468 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
I have studied several different perspectives on the rapture and honestly I just do not know for sure when it will happen but I do choose to be alert and am willing to suffer if need be.
I think we all need to do this. We are not meant to know if it will occur before, during, or after.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Canada
589 posts, read 1,315,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
I am not going to debate you on this but I do have a question. There are many verses that have the lord declaring that the faithful will be saved from the tribulation, can we really come up with a definite conclusion of when the rapture will occur without contradicting scripture? What would the purpose be to rapture just before the Mill.?

I have studied several different perspectives on the rapture and honestly I just do not know for sure when it will happen but I do choose to be alert and am willing to suffer if need be.
The Rapture will happen after the Great Tribulation... but before the 7 Vials containing the Wrath of God are poured down. It is part of the "Gathering of the Saints" which also includes the Resurrection of the elect. The Rapture is really an instantaneous death and resurrection of the living elect, at the "twinkling of an eye".

The purpose of the "Gathering of the Saints" is to raise the RULING TEAM of Jesus Christ to rule in the Millennium. These elect will be the kings and priests while Jesus Christ will be the High Priest and King of kings to rule over the humans on earth for 1000 years.

The Bible said the elect will be protected and saved from the Great Tribulation. They are the 144000 virgin men from the 12 Tribes of Israel and the "Woman" of Rev 12. In the end time, God will send a true Prophet to call them out (Malachi 4:5).

The 144000 will be sealed with the Name of God on their foreheads by an angel (fulfillment of Pentecost). The seal is for their protection as they go out to the World, 2 by 2, to 1.) preach the Gospel, 2.) warn the people of "Mystery Babylon" of the coming judgment, and 3.) warn against taking the Mark of the Beast (messages of the 3 angels in Rev 14:6-9).

The "Woman" will be given the "Great Wings of an Eagle" so she could go hide in the wilderness of Jordan (Edom, Moab, Ammon) for 3.5 years which is the entire duration of the Great Tribulation. The Bible told us Satan will try to drown them with a flood but the earth will miraculously open up and swallow the flood. God promised to protect and "nourish" them in the wilderness (Manna?).

After the Great Tribulation... God will send the angels to gather them in the Rapture. Notice the "angels" in plural... that means the 144000 are then scattered all over the World and the "Woman" in Jordan will be raptured and rise up to the sky to meet Jesus Christ in the clouds. This Gathering of the Saints will happen on the Feast of Trumpets. 10 days later, on the Day of Atonement, JC and the elect will touch down on Mt.Olives, they will fight the 200 Million army of the Antichrist in the Battle of Armageddon!
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,899,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Hi Robin,
Could you give me a couple examples of which Scriptures you mean so I see where you're coming from? Thx.

Edited to add...Sorry I see I didn't answer your question.



Well, my answer to that would be...we aren't going to be 'raptured' from the earth. Yes, we will be seized, snatched by the angels and gathered back to Jesus, but that will happen in the air right above the earth. Then we will descend down with Him and He will set up His Mill. kingdom. There is of course more to it than that, but that is the long and short of it.
I am not ignoring you, but I will give you the scripture later since I am at work and do not have my notes with me here.
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Old 02-16-2009, 06:42 PM
 
Location: South Dakota
733 posts, read 4,079,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
...I have always believed that most of Revelation has been fulfilled. With so much talk about the rapture and end times in here lately, I would like for someone, anyone, to tell me what it is they believe the rapture is, and why they feel they will know when Jesus will return. Thanks!
What do I believe about "the rapture?" I believe it's bunk. The"rapture" was cobbled up from various footnotes from the Scofield Reference Bible edited and annotated by C.I. Scofield. A good review of Lutheran theologian Barbara Rossing's book The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation is found here - The Center for Progressive Christianity - The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation (http://www.tcpc.org/review/review.cfm?review_id=87 - broken link).

To some the "rapture" is an important article of belief - though strangely not set forth in their "inerrant" bible. To others - myself included [and respected theologians like Rossing] - it's bunk. But that's alright. Everyone is entitled to their own conception of, and approach to, the divine. Just don't claim your way is the only way...

Last edited by windtimber; 02-16-2009 at 06:43 PM.. Reason: Typo. Added "don't" in the last phrase.
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Old 02-16-2009, 06:56 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,416 posts, read 29,529,737 times
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I believe Christians will be raptured and this will begin the 7 years of tribulation. So when I stop posting, everyone will know why
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