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Old 12-31-2008, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Romeoville, IL
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I would like to discuss sola scriptura, or the idea that Christianity is based solely on what comes out of the Bible.

The Catholic Church makes the very valid claim that no where in the Bible does the Bible support the idea of sola scriptura (solely scripture). I would also like to agree.

The New Testament, and to an extent the Old Testament, were not compiled and made official until centuries after the death of Jesus. In those centuries after his death, people relied on traditions, and the writings of the apostles. In the Bible, many times the apostles even recommend that they follow the traditions and the Word. They had very little access to the Word, so tradition is how the early Church mainly functioned.

In the 1500's, Martin Luther made the claim that unless it isn't expressly stated in the Bible, then it cannot be true. He came to these claims in a state of disgruntlement. I don't think had he truly studied scripture correctly, he would have came to these claims. His main beef with the Catholic Church at the time was indulgences and other practices by the upper hierarchy that he disagreed with. It should be noted such practices ceased to happen after the reformation.

 
Old 12-31-2008, 11:50 AM
 
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Growing up as a pentecostal, I have had so many questions on things that made no sense to me, things that I thought were weird and nonsensical, it wasn't until I heard about solas scriptura that things started to click. It made perfect sense. If it is not in the bible chances are it is not right. I have seen so much nonsense from other churches like being drunk in the Holy Spirit, Holy laughter that I find the safest way is to study scripture using only scripture in the proper context.
 
Old 12-31-2008, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronK View Post
The Catholic Church makes the very valid claim that no where in the Bible does the Bible support the idea of sola scriptura (solely scripture). I would also like to agree.
this is one area where I and the RC agree, however, for very different reasons. If sola scriptura were the only way, Papal Bulls could never have been initiated. Mary, the mother of Jesus would not have died a Virgin (in fact, Jesus's younger brother, Stephen, was patriarch of Jerusalem just before the destruction of the Temple, according to Josephus) according to a Papal Bull, and Papal infallability would never have been made a "truth."

but, as I have stated elsewhere, it is my feeling that while the Bible is a good collection (perhaps the best of them) of letters and recollections about the life of Jesus, to accept them as the sole source of Christian writings is problematic. My first difficulty with the concept is that I understand the motivation of the rulers of the land and church when they assembled the book and selected what was and was not canon. My second problem is the concept of accepting a canon in the first place.......Jesus did NOT have a book to refer to, He simply listened to the Holy Spirit......and that, too, is what we should be doing. So far as testing the spirit, if it is contradictory to what Jesus would do, then it is a false spirit........would Jesus send His sons to war? No? the the desire to wage war is coming from a carnal or false spirit. Lie? speak ill of someone? condemn someone for not obeying a rule of morality? Let He without sin cast the first stone.........so no. Sola scriptura is a tool used by churches to blackmail the congregation into obiedience......if you don't do it according to the scripture (as they interpret it) then you are condemned......when in fact Jesus would say "Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more."
 
Old 12-31-2008, 12:17 PM
 
1,016 posts, read 2,757,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronK View Post
I would like to discuss sola scriptura, or the idea that Christianity is based solely on what comes out of the Bible.

The Catholic Church makes the very valid claim that no where in the Bible does the Bible support the idea of sola scriptura (solely scripture). I would also like to agree.

The New Testament, and to an extent the Old Testament, were not compiled and made official until centuries after the death of Jesus. In those centuries after his death, people relied on traditions, and the writings of the apostles. In the Bible, many times the apostles even recommend that they follow the traditions and the Word. They had very little access to the Word, so tradition is how the early Church mainly functioned.

In the 1500's, Martin Luther made the claim that unless it isn't expressly stated in the Bible, then it cannot be true. He came to these claims in a state of disgruntlement. I don't think had he truly studied scripture correctly, he would have came to these claims. His main beef with the Catholic Church at the time was indulgences and other practices by the upper hierarchy that he disagreed with. It should be noted such practices ceased to happen after the reformation.
Luther's belief wasn't exactly as you stated it. His belief was that Scripture was the final normative rule and guide of the Christian faith. Basically, that a given doctrine or dogma needed to be supported by Scripture. Things unsupported by Scripture could range from being considered adiaphora or outright heresy (not too different from today).
 
Old 12-31-2008, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 6,080,886 times
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romeo and juliet is to love
as
scripture is to inspiration

(the literature is not the whole story)
 
Old 12-31-2008, 12:22 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,716,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
this is one area where I and the RC agree, however, for very different reasons. If sola scriptura were the only way, Papal Bulls could never have been initiated. Mary, the mother of Jesus would not have died a Virgin (in fact, Jesus's younger brother, Stephen, was patriarch of Jerusalem just before the destruction of the Temple, according to Josephus) according to a Papal Bull, and Papal infallability would never have been made a "truth."

but, as I have stated elsewhere, it is my feeling that while the Bible is a good collection (perhaps the best of them) of letters and recollections about the life of Jesus, to accept them as the sole source of Christian writings is problematic. My first difficulty with the concept is that I understand the motivation of the rulers of the land and church when they assembled the book and selected what was and was not canon. My second problem is the concept of accepting a canon in the first place.......Jesus did NOT have a book to refer to, He simply listened to the Holy Spirit......and that, too, is what we should be doing. So far as testing the spirit, if it is contradictory to what Jesus would do, then it is a false spirit........would Jesus send His sons to war? No? the the desire to wage war is coming from a carnal or false spirit. Lie? speak ill of someone? condemn someone for not obeying a rule of morality? Let He without sin cast the first stone.........so no. Sola scriptura is a tool used by churches to blackmail the congregation into obiedience......if you don't do it according to the scripture (as they interpret it) then you are condemned......when in fact Jesus would say "Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more."
If the Bible is the Word of God then to dismiss it is to dismiss God Himself.

(2 Timothy 3:15–17) "15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God..."
 
Old 12-31-2008, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,905,412 times
Reputation: 7014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
If the Bible is the Word of God then to dismiss it is to dismiss God Himself.
horseapples.........
 
Old 12-31-2008, 12:27 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,716,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
horseapples.........
Please find a good church because your "theology" is becoming weird.
 
Old 12-31-2008, 12:31 PM
 
40,053 posts, read 26,735,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
If the Bible is the Word of God then to dismiss it is to dismiss God Himself.
To equate God with the scriptures borders dangerously close to idolatry, Fundy. God is NOT some ancient writings . . . and to know God personally is our charge with Jesus and the holy spirit as our guide. Scriptures are tools to aid in that process . . . not equivalent to God!
 
Old 12-31-2008, 12:34 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,716,933 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
To equate God with the scriptures borders dangerously close to idolatry, Fundy. God is NOT some ancient writings . . . and to know God personally is our charge with Jesus and the holy spirit as our guide. Scriptures are tools to aid in that process . . . not equivalent to God!
(2 Timothy 3:15Ė17) "15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God..."

Where's your verse because without scripture, then you are the one committing idolatry, you are the one creating a God in your own choosing and making.
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