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Old 01-03-2009, 03:21 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,892,407 times
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Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
umm,,,ok.
I don't understand the cut n paste threads any more than you do. I never see any kind of coherent point.
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:56 AM
 
1,146 posts, read 1,418,206 times
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Default Why do post thing that are different than others.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
I don't understand the cut n paste threads any more than you do. I never see any kind of coherent point.
Since 9/11, there has been a time-shifts I had a vision where I was walking across New York City and I was on 42nd St, as you know Times Square is the most popular places to be with all her lights and brilliant signs and many people from different cultures, well in this vision as I crossed from 7th Ave to 8th Ave on 42nd St as I got halfway everything changed on the twinkling of an eye. What I saw in all of my Manhattan was in ruins everything has changed I saw myself in some type of future. I saw an old man and I asked him what has happened he told me that there is a time-shifts and as I walked further I got to the corner of 8th Ave on 42nd St I saw highI saw my niece at the time I had this vision some time ago, she was about 15 years of age and my vision I saw her as an adult with her children wrapped around her arms, but she is still young. I also was experiencing my family. She was homeless and frightened, as looked towards 7th Ave as quickly as I turned things got worse I could not believe there was a mess or some type of smoke and as quickly as I inhale the smoke I choked and woke up from a dream coughing and choking. So why do post thing that are different than others, when I pick up the Bible I see a mystery each paragraph of the verse has a hiting message a mystery, it is like I've been struck by life and change everything I see. Tell me what, was the reason God made prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel they were prophets that gave prophecy and judgments and warnings to the people of their time so who are the prophets of this age to warn the people of this generation. Remember that the world is still in bondage and it is our hands and create the problems we have. Who is willing to make the change? I already see how people react to a single word; God says the wages of sin is death; I do not take those words likely. So what will make people change and we have a feast, I would like that very much but I must come to reality, a New Year is upon us, parts of this world is angry because we are different but we love our children. A lot of famous people are dying before our eyes, people are getting sick, children with no families “widows” fatherless children, family losing their loved ones. It is said that we must see the darkness before you can see the light. When people suffer their life change, it is only this type of change that makes people realize what is really of what is going on. And the Bible states what is going on, a reflection of humanity. The Bible says that we like darkness rather than the light, the Bible gives us a vision of hope as well. The new president says that we will have change, yes things are looking better but you know what they say before it gets better you will get a lot worse. Someone said, I never see any kind of coherent point, I don't understand. That is word “coherent what does it means?
As a theory of truth coherentism restricts true sentences to those that cohere with some specified set of sentences. Someone's belief is true if and only if it is coherent with all or most of his or her other beliefs. Usually, coherence is taken to imply something stronger than mere consistency. Statements that are comprehensive and meet the requirements of Occam's razor are usually to be preferred.
As an illustration of the principle, if people lived in a virtual reality universe, they could see birds in the trees that aren't really there. Not only are the birds not really there, but the trees aren't really there either. The people know that the bird and the tree are there, because it coheres with the rest of their experiences in the virtual reality. Talking about coherence is an abstract way of talking about the things that the people really know, without regard for whether they are in a virtual reality or not.
So we know there's some truth to what I post, when we read it, it is somewhat confusing but also to me, what we do to each other is more confusion than we do understand. So what I post is what I see in the world, the things that aren't seen because my mind is open, those are clearly in what I see in the world or in the Bible. The Sins of the world. So it makes me different I know that we don't live in virtual reality world, for the moment the word has no direction. Maybe some real Truth will alter peoples mind to change. Everything has a beginning and an end is easy to judge one another, but sometimes we don't look at ourselves and judge our actions, unless our hearts is in the right place.
Does this make any sense to you? How do you see the World? I guss soon I will go, in this world There is on room for people like me, but it ok because it the world I have, I will alway Care and dream better future for All of us Happy new year!
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Old 01-03-2009, 11:36 AM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 7,627,772 times
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???????????????
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Old 01-03-2009, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,419,853 times
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My dear, sweet, gentle, kind-hearted, loving friend and brother in Christ Jesus...I love you!! I understand where you come from...where your heart is...your passion for Jesus...You love Him sooo very much!! Don't stop posting what God writes upon your heart, don't listen to what people say to you...listen to what God says to you only!! You are o.k.!! You ARE the MESSAGE! Don't let people discourage you dear friend...it is only (for lack of a better word) ignorance. I love your threads...they are rich in wealth!! I look forward always to see what the Lord has engraved upon your heart!! What you post is refreshing to the soul, even if it is sometimes hard to swallow...we should be eating meat now...no longer milk!! God bless you TWIO...keep doing what you do the best....spreading truth!! AMEN!...Love
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
987 posts, read 908,352 times
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Even if you believe the stories built around the Ezekiel and Isaiah passages, where did all the other 'legends' come from which the op defines? son of death, and all that?

As I was reading through the Old Testament one day, I noticed in Ezekiel 27:23, not too long before the passage said to be giving us some of Satan's early history, that a city/town called Eden was mentioned. Now this may not have any bearing on the passages used, but it seems to be grouped into cities that apparently had great wealth, and if it had great wealth, it most likely had some beautiful areas, with possibly a garden or two.

Also in Isaiah 37:11-12, Isaiah is speaking of the destruction Assyria caused to many lands--

11 Lo, thou thyself hast heard what the kings of Assyria have done to all the lands in devoting them to destruction, and shalt thou be delivered? 12 Did the gods of the nations deliver them whom my fathers destroyed, Gozan and Haran, and Reseph and the sons of Eden, who were in Telassar?

This same passage is in 2 Kings 19:12. Just a few verses later (14) Hezekiah is beseeching God and mentions that God inhabits the cherubim.

Seems to me there is room for doubt that those passages in Ezekiel and Isaiah are necessarily describing the original Garden of Eden.

We see in Job that Satan has limited authority, he can do nothing that God does not allow.

There is a scripture that states Satan transforms himself into a creature of light. Why did it not say he restores himself to a creature of light? If he was one to begin with? How would that be possible if his great sin stripped him of his glory? Doesn't the New Testament say that Satan was a murderer from the beginning? John 8:44 Is there any context in these verses which suggest that the beginning spoken of is not Satan's very creation?

We should hope that what the popular theory alleges is wrong, that Satan was once a 'perfect' angel called Lucifer who created/changed himself to be Satan for if a being created to be perfect could rebel and become defiant and cause so much havoc, what guarantee have we that the same thing could not happen again once we seem to have a perfect universe? Could not another angel who has been perfectly obedient up till then decide he wants some of God's glory, or what about humans? If it could happen to a being who was created perfect from the beginning, could not a human who once knew wealth, sensual pleasures, etc, decide to rebel at some point in 'eternity'? If God did not control it once, how could we be sure it couldn't happen again? I believe it was in God's original design for all this to happen for the tree which Eve ate of (whether literal or figurative) was the knowledge of BOTH good and evil. It had the same root and in order for us to become like God, we had to know evil to understand what good is. So He created an adversary by whose hand we were/are tempted and led into all manner of evil, but when it has served its purpose, God will do away with every evil, and bring good from it, and we can rest assured we will never have to deal with it again. That is much more comforting than the alternative.

I have read an article which claims that haylel which is the word which is translated Lucifer in the KJV means 'howl'. I will see if I can find that and post the most informative parts. It is another consideration. I believe, if I recall correctly, that that particular word is not in the scriptures anywhere else.

I just pose questions. I am not here to dogmatically claim I have all the correct views. I am but a seeker and it is possible and likely I wander down avenues that do not appeal to or even strongly clash with another's appetites. If anything I share whets someone's appetite to explore into a matter more deeply, then I am humbly pleased to have been an instrument of the Father. If nothing I say stirs anything of value in someone, then I am humbled again.

I am thankful for avenues like this where we can share thoughts and discoveries. I hope not to offend

Grace and peace
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Old 01-04-2009, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
987 posts, read 908,352 times
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Ok, This is not the article I read years ago which said the original meaning was howl, and it is not heylel that means howl, but it seems the original Hebrew was not heylel but ayl or something similar. so here is an excerpt from an article I just found:

Adam Clarke, 1760-1832, In his Commentary on the Bible, Adam Clarke wrote this about "Lucifer

Verse 12. O Lucifer, [son of the morning] The Versions in general agree in this translation, and render kkyh heilel as signifying Lucifer, the morning star, whether Jupiter or Venus; as these are both bringers of the morning light, or morning stars, annually in their turn. And although the context speaks explicitly concerning Nebuchadnezzar, yet this has been, I know not why, applied to the chief of the fallen angels, who is most incongruously denominated Lucifer, (the bringer of light!) an epithet as common to him as those of Satan and Devil. That the Holy Spirit by his prophets should call this arch-enemy of God and man the light-bringer, would be strange indeed. But the truth is, the text speaks nothing at all concerning Satan nor his fall, nor the occasion of that fall, which many divines have with great confidence deduced from this text. O how necessary it is to understand the literal meaning of Scripture, that preposterous comments may be prevented! Besides, I doubt much whether our translation be correct. llqh heilel, which we translate Lucifer, comes from llq yalal, yell, howl, or shriek, and should be translated, "Howl, son of the morning;" and so the Syriac has understood it; and for this meaning Michaelis contends

Clarke does not beat around the bush. As he puts it, "the truth is, the text speaks nothing at all concerning Satan nor his fall, nor the occasion of that fall, which many divines have with great confidence deduced from this text." To Clarke, the idea that the Holy Spirit would give the name of Light-Bringer to Satan is both "strange" and "preposterous."

For the complete article go to:

Lucifer Or Nebuchadnezzar?

If there is any interest in reading more along this line, you can find an excellent article at:


L. Ray Smith - The Lake of Fire - Part 9

or just do a search or google with howl, son of the morning and you will get many choices to peruse.

It was a shock to me to discover that what I had been told in church was not the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Not that it was done deliberately, I'm sure, but in ignorance by those who learned it from others and on down the line.

Grace and peace
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:29 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,141,141 times
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Quote:
We should hope that what the popular theory alleges is wrong, that Satan was once a 'perfect' angel called Lucifer who created/changed himself to be Satan for if a being created to be perfect could rebel and become defiant and cause so much havoc, what guarantee have we that the same thing could not happen again once we seem to have a perfect universe? Could not another angel who has been perfectly obedient up till then decide he wants some of God's glory, or what about humans? If it could happen to a being who was created perfect from the beginning, could not a human who once knew wealth, sensual pleasures, etc, decide to rebel at some point in 'eternity'? If God did not control it once, how could we be sure it couldn't happen again? I believe it was in God's original design for all this to happen for the tree which Eve ate of (whether literal or figurative) was the knowledge of BOTH good and evil. It had the same root and in order for us to become like God, we had to know evil to understand what good is. So He created an adversary by whose hand we were/are tempted and led into all manner of evil, but when it has served its purpose, God will do away with every evil, and bring good from it, and we can rest assured we will never have to deal with it again. That is much more comforting than the alternative
I agree. God bless.
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