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Old 01-05-2009, 09:06 AM
 
302 posts, read 477,347 times
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In the matter of the penitent thief on the cross, the Father revealed the Christ to him --just like he did to Peter ...

"He [Jesus] said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" And Simon Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

And Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you,
Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal {this} to you, **but My Father who is in heaven.**

"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon THIS ROCK I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it." Matt 16:15-18 (NAS)


"THIS ROCK" means believing that Jesus is The Christ. Only those who have been **begotten by God** are able to recognize Jesus as their Saviour and Lord.

The Father had given the thief gifts of faith and repentance! Now, we will see how the thief had a living faith that produced works in that compressed period of time before he died.

1. He encouraged the other thief to "Fear God".

"One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, [Jesus] saying, "Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!" But the other rebuked him, saying, "Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation"? Luke 23:39-40 (RSV)

To "Fear God" is to morally revere God: "Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." Eccl 12:13 (KJV)

2. He acknowledged his sins ...

"And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss."
Luke 23:31 (KJV)

3. He called Jesus Christ "Lord", believed in the
resurrection and he wanted to enter the kingdom:

"And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." Luke 23:42 (KJV)

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
Rom 10:9-10 (KJV)

On the day of judgment, all men will be justifed or condemned by the choices that they make --whether they have the opportunity to do the deeds --or not.

(Certainly, the penitent thief did not have the opportunity to be baptised.)

"For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." Eccl 12:13 (KJV)

For example, in the matter of adultery when Jesus said:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman TO LUST after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matt 5:28 (KJV)

In that case, even though the man did not DO the deed, he had the INTENT to do it if he had the opportunity. Jesus is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart, whether the secret choice is good or bad. In the case of the thief on the cross, he had the INTENT to obey God but lacked the opportunity to do it. Jesus said to him: "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43 (KJV)

Donna Kupp
References: Luke 23:32-43

"...for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every plan and thought. If you seek Him, He will be
found by you; but if you forsake Him, he will cast you off for ever." (1 Chronicles 28:9)

Dear Reader,

When I was writing about the penitent thief, I was impressed at how his experience could be an encouragement to handicapped people who sincerely love the Lord.

For example, a person who is unable to speak will be judged by the INTENT of his heart. (He would confess the Lord Jesus Christ with his mouth --if he could talk; etc.)
dk
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,429,351 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna Kupp View Post
In the matter of the penitent thief on the cross, the Father revealed the Christ to him --just like he did to Peter ...

"He [Jesus] said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" And Simon Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

And Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you,
Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal {this} to you, **but My Father who is in heaven.**

"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon THIS ROCK I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it." Matt 16:15-18 (NAS)


"THIS ROCK" means believing that Jesus is The Christ. Only those who have been **begotten by God** are able to recognize Jesus as their Saviour and Lord.

The Father had given the thief gifts of faith and repentance! Now, we will see how the thief had a living faith that produced works in that compressed period of time before he died.

1. He encouraged the other thief to "Fear God".

"One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, [Jesus] saying, "Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!" But the other rebuked him, saying, "Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation"? Luke 23:39-40 (RSV)

To "Fear God" is to morally revere God: "Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." Eccl 12:13 (KJV)

2. He acknowledged his sins ...

"And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss."
Luke 23:31 (KJV)

3. He called Jesus Christ "Lord", believed in the
resurrection and he wanted to enter the kingdom:

"And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." Luke 23:42 (KJV)

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
Rom 10:9-10 (KJV)

On the day of judgment, all men will be justifed or condemned by the choices that they make --whether they have the opportunity to do the deeds --or not.

(Certainly, the penitent thief did not have the opportunity to be baptised.)

"For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." Eccl 12:13 (KJV)

For example, in the matter of adultery when Jesus said:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman TO LUST after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matt 5:28 (KJV)

In that case, even though the man did not DO the deed, he had the INTENT to do it if he had the opportunity. Jesus is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart, whether the secret choice is good or bad. In the case of the thief on the cross, he had the INTENT to obey God but lacked the opportunity to do it. Jesus said to him: "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43 (KJV)

Donna Kupp
References: Luke 23:32-43

"...for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every plan and thought. If you seek Him, He will be
found by you; but if you forsake Him, he will cast you off for ever." (1 Chronicles 28:9)

Dear Reader,

When I was writing about the penitent thief, I was impressed at how his experience could be an encouragement to handicapped people who sincerely love the Lord.

For example, a person who is unable to speak will be judged by the INTENT of his heart. (He would confess the Lord Jesus Christ with his mouth --if he could talk; etc.)
dk
Good Morning Donna......This is really good...I wish that I understood better in this area of "people who believe", or as you state "begotten by God", and people who do not believe...does it mean that God has already chosen who will believe? I'm very familiar with the scripture, (I love the Word of God), so I know about being "predestined" and "called"...and I know about "scales on the eyes"...and "having faith by the Spirit"...I still wonder why? Why some accept Jesus, and why some do not...I wonder how that all works...I wonder why some hear and believe, and others hear and do not...God wants ALL to be saved, right? Of course He does...I know there is an answer, and I've probably just "missed" it which is totally possible...(I miss a lot) I just can't get a handle on this one, and I would love to be able to understand why... maybe you or someone could shed some light on this for me......thank you for this beautiful description of the thief on the cross, very precious...Love
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:24 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,476,123 times
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It is also interesting that Matthew 27:44 doesn't say anything about a repentant thief. As a matter of fact, they also mocked Jesus the same everyone else was.

Mark is silent on this issue, except to say that they were sinners. 15:28

John is silent completely on the thief issue.

Makes one wonder about the deathbed sinner's prayer debate that so many use to accept Jesus. What is this Truth?
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:12 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 7,636,497 times
Reputation: 3760
Why oh why cannot it be understood that the thief died under the Old Law, before the baptism for the remission of sins was instituted???? What is so hard to understand about that???
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Old 01-05-2009, 04:06 PM
 
40,190 posts, read 26,814,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marianinark View Post
Why oh why cannot it be understood that the thief died under the Old Law, before the baptism for the remission of sins was instituted???? What is so hard to understand about that???
Probably because it is too simplistic and legalistic an interpretation about our loving God.
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Old 01-05-2009, 05:45 PM
 
2,946 posts, read 4,882,387 times
Reputation: 1610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Good Morning Donna......This is really good...I wish that I understood better in this area of "people who believe", or as you state "begotten by God", and people who do not believe...does it mean that God has already chosen who will believe? I'm very familiar with the scripture, (I love the Word of God), so I know about being "predestined" and "called"...and I know about "scales on the eyes"...and "having faith by the Spirit"...I still wonder why? Why some accept Jesus, and why some do not...I wonder how that all works...I wonder why some hear and believe, and others hear and do not...God wants ALL to be saved, right? Of course He does...I know there is an answer, and I've probably just "missed" it which is totally possible...(I miss a lot) I just can't get a handle on this one, and I would love to be able to understand why... maybe you or someone could shed some light on this for me......thank you for this beautiful description of the thief on the cross, very precious...Love
Verna, I think the key to understanding is grasping the fact that God is in control of EVERYTHING. We DO NOT have free will to do as we want. We are governed by laws..either spiritual..or carnal. If you go back and click on the link that shana posted there is a lot of wisdom in that teaching.
We absolutely must wrap our mind around the fact that God has predestined and preordained everything. Our carnal egostical mind tells us that we are in control...that we control our own destiny. We do not! Everything in this universe is governed by laws and we are no different. An example given in the link that shana posted is how man wants to fly. We wish we could fly but we can`t because of the law of gravitiy. We can`t just flap our arms and fly like a bird though we want too. God`s laws govern what we can and can`t do...what God allows us to do or not do.
God did not create a world then give you a limited amount of time to make a right choice. Then,if you don`t make that right choice in the limited amount of time,be it 12 yrs...80 yrs..etc then torment you for an unlimited amount of time and say well..it was your choice. You chose eternal torment over me. Who, in their right mind, would choose to spend an eternity being tormented in flames as opposed to spending an eternity in absolute happiness and bliss? No one would! People sin and follow lawlessness because their eyes have not been open to the love of God. They are governed by the laws of carnality not the spiritual...Remember, `Father forgive them for they know not what they do`? Who said that? They did not know what they were doing. They did not understand the spiritual. Their eyes were blinded. If the church had it`s way there would be 11,12,13 yr olds burning alive forever and ever because they didn`t pray the sinners prayer. Imagine that..being alive on this earth for only a relative short period of a few years but suffering in torment forever more.
MANY are called Verna...but FEW are chosen. MANY are called to know about the true God but FEW are chosen to understanding the truth. The good news is everyone will come to the knowledge of God after they have been put through the purifying fire. Every knee will bow and tongue confess to the GLORY of God. Yes, God is in control.. not man. Rest assured in that fact no matter how loud and strong the church tells you otherwise. Pray that you are a part of the few as opposed to the many.
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Old 01-05-2009, 05:48 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,710 posts, read 74,719,468 times
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confessing your sins without some character reformation is risky biz, but in this case christ granted a pardon.
for most of us, unless there is an amends process better get that asbestos suit into layaway b4 they run out.
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:13 PM
 
302 posts, read 477,347 times
Reputation: 82
Default word or Word

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marianinark View Post
Why oh why cannot it be understood that the thief died under the Old Law, before the baptism for the remission of sins was instituted???? What is so hard to understand about that???
You are right. The baptism for the remission of sins was commanded after the resurrection of Jesus. Nevertheless, many people use the thief on the cross as an excuse not to submit to the Ten Commandments. Do you? How about the Sabbath Commandment?

word or WORD ?

"For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword..." Hebrews 4:12

Many Christians believe the phrase "the word of God" in that verse refers to the Bible. As you will soon see that is a dangerous error. I am convinced that "the Word" in that verse refers to Jesus Christ and to think otherwise will take away from the serious warning given in that passage. In order to prove that let's take a closer look at that verse in its context:

Hebrews 4:9 "So then, there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God;

4:10 for whoever enters God's rest also ceases from his labors as God did from His.

4:11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, that no one fall by the same sort of disobedience.

4:12 For the Word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

4:13 And before HIM no creature is hidden, but all are
open and laid bare to the eyes of HIM with whom we have to do.

As you noticed, I capitalized "the Word of God". In the original Greek text, words were not written with upper case letters as we do in English. So whether the translation reads Word or word, in either case it is simply the translator's opinion. My point is that there is nothing which demands that "Word" be translated "word". Rather, it is the context that decides.

When looking at the entire context of Hebrews chapter four, I am convinced that in this verse, "word" could refer to nothing other than the "Word of God", Jesus Christ our Lord. Here are my reasons:

1. The phrase "the Word of God" comes from the Greek "o LOGOS tou Theo". LOGOS is the same Greek word which the apostle John used when he said: "In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God and the WORD was God." (John 1:1)

And again in Revelation 19:13, where he said: "...and the name by which He is called is the WORD of God. In these verses the Word of God is clearly the Son of God.

On the other hand, It is also true that the same Greek phrase "logos of God" was used to represent the written word of God, but in those verses it is always clear that it does not refer to the Son of God. That is not the case in Hebrews 4:12. In fact, one must stretch his imagination to the breaking point in order to believe that the Bible is "living and active" or that the Bible (an inanimate object) is able to "discern the thoughts and actions of my heart". No, these are the characteristics of a resurrected and living Saviour. For example, the word of God says this about the WORD of God:

"...for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands
every plan and thought. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, he will cast you off for ever." (1 Chronicles 28:9)

"And all the churches shall know that I am He who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve." (Revelation 2:23)

2. My second reason for believing that the "Word of God" refers not to the book - but to the author of the book, is that the same passage which says the WORD of God is "living and active" also says:

Hebrews 4:13 "And before HIM no creature is hidden, but all are open and laid bare to the eyes of HIM with whom we have to do."

How could the Bible be referred to as a "him"? In my opinion, those who translate "Word" with a small w, are following the traditions they have been taught instead of looking closely at what the scriptures really say. As I was discussing this with my wife, she asked a very good question. She said: "Why do you think that Satan would want this obvious mistranslation to be taught? What could he gain from this?" So we prayed and studied the verse to find an answer.

The first thing that came to mind was that thinking that the "word of God" meant the Bible would lead people away from the obvious warning of this verse - that it was Jesus Himself who is searching our hearts and is going to judge us according to our intentions.

The second thing that came to mind was: "Judge our intentions about what?" A quick look at the context answered that question. Verse 4:11, says that we are to be wary of falling by disobedience, and a previous verse (Hebrews 4:9) tells us what particular kind of disobedience of which we were to be wary...

"So then, there remains a SABBATH REST FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD; for whoever enters God's rest also ceases from his labors as God did from his."

"Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, THAT NO ONE FALL BY THE SAME SORT OF DISOBEDIENCE."

The warning is clear, Jesus is looking at the intentions of our hearts about the sabbath. If we know to keep the sabbath day holy and then go ahead and break it by working for money, or setting it aside in order to keep our worldly pleasures, we will fall by the same sort of disobedience which caused the Israelites to fall in the wilderness...and because they fell they never entered God's rest.

God knows the secret intentions of every heart, including yours. So be honest with yourself; hasn't the Holy Spirit dealt with you about keeping the sabbath day holy? Have you obeyed fully?

In an earlier part of the same passage in Hebrews, the author gave this alarm...

"TODAY WHEN YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS IN THE REBELLION."

Who were they that heard and yet were REBELLIOUS? Was it not all those who left Egypt under the leadership of Moses? And with whom was he provoked forty years? Was it not with those who SINNED... And to whom did he swear that they should never enter his rest, but to those who were DISOBEDIENT?" Hebrews 3:16f

Dear Reader,

Have you heard His voice today and ignored it? Those who knowingly break God's Sabbath are rebellious and disobedient sinners who have hardened their hearts as in the rebellion of the Israelites. They will never enter God's rest because by not "ceasing from their labors as God did from His", they refuse to honor the God of creation who said: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy".

That is the message that Satan wants to keep Christians from hearing! "...and few will find the way. Mt 7:14

Harold and Donna Kupp
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,429,351 times
Reputation: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
Verna, I think the key to understanding is grasping the fact that God is in control of EVERYTHING. We DO NOT have free will to do as we want. We are governed by laws..either spiritual..or carnal. If you go back and click on the link that shana posted there is a lot of wisdom in that teaching.
We absolutely must wrap our mind around the fact that God has predestined and preordained everything. Our carnal egostical mind tells us that we are in control...that we control our own destiny. We do not! Everything in this universe is governed by laws and we are no different. An example given in the link that shana posted is how man wants to fly. We wish we could fly but we can`t because of the law of gravitiy. We can`t just flap our arms and fly like a bird though we want too. God`s laws govern what we can and can`t do...what God allows us to do or not do.
God did not create a world then give you a limited amount of time to make a right choice. Then,if you don`t make that right choice in the limited amount of time,be it 12 yrs...80 yrs..etc then torment you for an unlimited amount of time and say well..it was your choice. You chose eternal torment over me. Who, in their right mind, would choose to spend an eternity being tormented in flames as opposed to spending an eternity in absolute happiness and bliss? No one would! People sin and follow lawlessness because their eyes have not been open to the love of God. They are governed by the laws of carnality not the spiritual...Remember, `Father forgive them for they know not what they do`? Who said that? They did not know what they were doing. They did not understand the spiritual. Their eyes were blinded. If the church had it`s way there would be 11,12,13 yr olds burning alive forever and ever because they didn`t pray the sinners prayer. Imagine that..being alive on this earth for only a relative short period of a few years but suffering in torment forever more.
MANY are called Verna...but FEW are chosen. MANY are called to know about the true God but FEW are chosen to understanding the truth. The good news is everyone will come to the knowledge of God after they have been put through the purifying fire. Every knee will bow and tongue confess to the GLORY of God. Yes, God is in control.. not man. Rest assured in that fact no matter how loud and strong the church tells you otherwise. Pray that you are a part of the few as opposed to the many.
......thank you very much spm62...I do ask God when I pray to Him that He make me the exception and not the rule......I do believe God is talking......Love
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Old 01-06-2009, 05:06 AM
 
Location: among the chaos
2,136 posts, read 4,391,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
If you go back and click on the link that shana posted there is a lot of wisdom in that teaching.
.
Could you DM the link? I presume it is in another thread that this one came from but I am trying very hard to stay away from the forum. I just happened into this thread but will unsubscribe as soon as I post this reply.

Thank you.

<><
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