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Old 01-06-2009, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heracles View Post
I always ask this question, what kind of existence do you have to be leading in order to think strapping a bomb to yourself is attractive? Read up on Israeli treatment of the Palestinians:

Invisible Palestinians: Ideology and Reality in Israel

I'm tired of seeing half the story out of the Middle East.
Do you realize that the majority of those who are in the refugee camps are not displaced from Israeli "occupied"land, they are actually displaced from the surrounding Arab nations. The Jews have occupied Jerusalem for over 1200 years while the countryside of Paletine/Israel has been populated by refugees from the surrounding nations as well as Christians and Jews. The Zionists purchased the Lands, which already belonged to the Jews, fron Britian with the approval of the UN. The mandate that was to be agreed upon by all sides was rejected by the Arab League of Nations on the Grounds that the Jews had no right to live. Israel agreed to live in peace and harmony with the people groups that were already settled there so long as all agreed to the Jewish authority. Anotherwords all become Israeli but not necessarily Jewish. All were in agreement accept the refugees who sided with the surrounding Arab nations. Israel has done what it has had to do to survive.

I know very often there is a sad face put on the Palestinians to make them look like victims, which they are, they are victims of the surrounding Arab nations who are using them to try and destroy Israel. Israel has offered repeatedly to assimilate the Palestinians into their society just like so many other groups including some Muslim groups. Reading the link you provided does not give the whole picture. It mentions farmers who show tax records for 3 decades, but it does not specify who those taxes are paid to. Do you realize that many of those who claim they are paying taxes are not paying them to the legal Government? The taxes are being payed to the Palestinian Government and the Arabs, not to the Israeli Government, so it is not better than not paying taxes at all.

A little here and a little there can be presented for either side, but when a cease fire has been agreed upon and only one side honors it, then something is definitely wrong.Remember Israel fired no rockets or missles into Gaza until the cease fire was over with. Hamas fired missles and rockets every day during the cease fire, well over a thousand while all Israel did was repeatedly warn them. Cease fire agreement end, Israel retaliates, and everyone wants to cry foul.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:02 AM
 
17,751 posts, read 15,647,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
You are missing the point, being agreed on is not a signed treaty and Lebanon was still firing on Israel as well. That really has nothing to do with Gaza except the fact that they will not honor a cease fire agreement. During the cease fore Israel bombed nothing and yet Hamas sent over 1000 missles into Israel killing civilians. Israel purchased the land including Gaza and gave that land to the Palestinians for peace which the Palestinians have never honored.

Some are Gods people, remember there are Christians on both sides as well.
You are missing the point. They were dumping those cluster bombs in civilian areas when peace was assured. They say they are not targeting civilians so they are liars. They are not even supposed to be using cluster bombs. Now its two out of 500? Israel has a habit of obviously targeting civilians. It is typical behavior. Whatever justification you create, Israel is lying. Then they don't want any media to see this but they have nothing to hide? Am I a complete idiot?


And they did not purchase ALL the land. They took it.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:06 AM
 
225 posts, read 312,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
(...)Israel agreed to live in peace and harmony with the people groups that were already settled there so long as all agreed to the Jewish authority. Anotherwords all become Israeli but not necessarily Jewish. All were in agreement accept the refugees who sided with the surrounding Arab nations. Israel has done what it has had to do to survive.
(...)
Israel has offered repeatedly to assimilate the Palestinians into their society just like so many other groups including some Muslim groups. Reading the link you provided does not give the whole picture. It mentions farmers who show tax records for 3 decades, but it does not specify who those taxes are paid to. Do you realize that many of those who claim they are paying taxes are not paying them to the legal Government? The taxes are being payed to the Palestinian Government and the Arabs, not to the Israeli Government, so it is not better than not paying taxes at all.

A little here and a little there can be presented for either side, but when a cease fire has been agreed upon and only one side honors it, then something is definitely wrong. Remember Israel fired no rockets or missles into Gaza until the cease fire was over with. Hamas fired missles and rockets every day during the cease fire, well over a thousand while all Israel did was repeatedly warn them. Cease fire agreement end, Israel retaliates, and everyone wants to cry foul.
So, the Palestinians are supposed to view the Israeli offer to live as second class citizens in the land of their birth as a good deal? And pay their taxes to a government that treats them like scum? Gaza, fire when ready. I don't think anyone can reasonably expect the Palestinians to honor any agreement with Israel given the Israeli treatment they receive.

I don't remember the timeline here, but the Palestinians were given autonomy (how generous) and they democratically nominated the PLO, and the US and Israel turned around and said "Well, you can democratically nominate for your leadership who we pick for you. We won't recognize the PLO." Ummm, what kind of democratic process is that exactly?

Although it may sound otherwise, I really don't have much sympathy for the Palestinians. I think they behave badly and have undercut their own position plenty often. But saying that Israel is hard done by really does not wash. Israel is a giant military power. They receive $3B yearly from the US no strings attached, they enjoy near immunity for their actions by playing the anti-Semitism card when criticized. They should have taken advantage of the Bush years to invade their neighbors and commit genocide. Who would have questioned it?
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:20 AM
 
17,751 posts, read 15,647,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
The bible makes it very clear that these are God's people and not only does He protect them but He has a warning to us, (Genesis 12:3) "I will bless those who bless you, But I will curse those who curse you...".
Christians are of Abraham. Abraham was the father of many nations and yet you still persist in granting this only to Israel and for there flesh of all things. God wants the right kind of meat for his kingdom I guess.


Romans 9
6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”[b] 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”[c
Matthew8
10 When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel! 11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you.” And his servant was healed that same hour.
Quote:
Look no one here are calling the Jews, "saint"s, they have done a lot of wicked things (I am not excusing them but it happens) so have the Palestinians not only to Israel but to each other. The reality is such things happen under those conditions and duress. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
God's people are by definition saints. I ask again. Are these God's people or not?
Quote:

A Palestinian who has perspective. Please watch and see if you still have the same questions.

YouTube - Masab Yousef "Son of Hamas terrorists leader"
I am not supporting Palestinians other than a basic right to allow non combatants to leave which they cannot in Gaza. However it is you who supports Israel.

You don't even care about that anyway. Its the "Bible says so". Of course it doesn't. No one can point to a single scripture in the NT about Israel even being gathered let alone trafficking weapons to Israel. Why didn't Christians join in against Rome? Why not in the Bar Kokhba revolt later? Its all a fantasy , a very deadly death cult fantasy.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:27 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,717,680 times
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I like this topic alot but let's not get political or else the Moderator will close this thread, let's look at this from a religious perspective. Jews are the chosen people?, Would God allow this- Is this His will?, are the Palestinians being punished?, Is this prophecy- should we Christians even criticize it and try to stop it or should we be looking forward to it, should us Christians condemn Israel? Are we giving Israel a free pass to committ murder and carnage? and so forth

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 01-06-2009 at 11:43 AM..
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:34 AM
 
225 posts, read 312,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I like this topic alot but let's not get political or else the Moderator will close this thread, let's look at this from a religious perspective. Jews are the chosen people?, Would God allow this- Is this His will?, are the Palestinians being punished?, Is this prophecy- should we Christians even criticize it and trying to stop it or should we be looking forward to it? and so forth
Christians are in a tight spot, I say. You either stand by while atrocities happen and do nothing to further so-called prophesy, or you do the 'Christian' thing and stop bloodshed but thwart your god. A wise man once told me that Jews might be the chosen people, but they should ask themselves what they are chosen for.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:43 AM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,932,349 times
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The radical muslims slaughter people all the time. In any war their are innocent people killed.
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Old 01-06-2009, 01:38 PM
 
17,751 posts, read 15,647,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
The radical muslims slaughter people all the time. In any war their are innocent people killed.

Hi texdav,

So lets follow that example? We are the salt of the earth. As was stated above we cannot compromise on what it means to follow Christ and repay evil for evil or assist others in doing the same.

Romans 12
17 Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”[a] says the Lord. 20 Therefore



“ If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”[b]

21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
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Old 01-06-2009, 01:52 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,717,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Hi texdav,

So lets follow that example? We are the salt of the earth. As was stated above we cannot compromise on what it means to follow Christ and repay evil for evil or assist others in doing the same.

Romans 12
17 Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”[a] says the Lord. 20 Therefore



“ If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”[b]

21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
So Gwynedd1, what are Christians to do. What would you like to see done?
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Old 01-06-2009, 02:03 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,471,568 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Hi texdav,

So lets follow that example? We are the salt of the earth. As was stated above we cannot compromise on what it means to follow Christ and repay evil for evil or assist others in doing the same.

Romans 12
17 Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”[a] says the Lord. 20 Therefore



“ If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”[b]

21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Awesome you use scripture, and then those who understand not, come in and ask what they as Christians are supposed to do??
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