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Old 01-07-2009, 12:04 PM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,208,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
bigthirsty, as for your #1, no Israel is not trying to be an par with Hamas.

As for the rest, cluster bombs were alluded to as being used against Lebennon not Gaza. They are misclasified as cluster bombs to shine a bad light on Israel for using something they are not, more disinformation.

Please answer a question no one has attempted to answer. How many Israelis have been killed in 2008 by the over 2000, close to 3000 bombings perpetrated by Hamas?
Point 1: They may not be trying to be but that is how they are being viewed. "Terrorism" is relative term depending on who is being terrorized. So the "who" is in question here. Hamas or the gaza general population. They are on par with their overwhelming response

Point 2: They are misclassified huh? So the president of the United States (Dubya) falsely condemned Israels use of the non-cluster bomb. So I'm to believe that Israel's biggest ally (America) was wrong in their condemnation for the use of non-cluster bombs. Sure. Logic prevents us from agreement.

As to your question concerning Israeli deaths. I don't know the number. However, your line of thinking is exactly why there will NEVER be peace there. Keeping track of a death toll is not exactly the best way to reach a peace. I mean how far back do you go? Why not all the way back to 1948?

See my posts make me seem anti-Israel. Thats just not true. I'm anti bull-sh** and thats exactly what this is. I hold Israel to a higher standard than Hamas (fancy that). If Israel truly wants peace... their current route is not the way to go. Building a coaliton of countries against Hamas is the way to go. It isn't quick and it is painful but it is a long term viable solution. Tit for Tat is gives short term success and long term fail.
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:29 PM
 
225 posts, read 312,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Well than I guess you will just have to continue to believe the lies (...) Let Israel finish their work.
I was going to go after your post item for item but that does not seem to be working...I'll ask instead why on Earth you think for one second that Palestinians should be giddy about the presence of Israel? I suppose, because I am not there in the room with Israeli and Palestinian leaders as they make their plans, that it could be a vast conspiracy of Palestinian innocents duped by their wily leaders into hating the Israelis and blaming all their suffering on Israel and Israeli supporters. But why don't the Israelis say so? What has Israel ever done that would make the average Palestinian say "Gee, those Israelis are OK." Maybe it's the border checks. Maybe it's the strip searches. Maybe it's the torture, or the land confiscation, or the restricted water rights or the assassinations. I guess in some big sense, Israel has a 'right' to defend itself, but when it defends itself from the grief it sows, you won't see any tears from me. Again, I do not defend the Palestinians. They make poor choices but at least those choices are reactive as opposed to proactive. The Israelis have the luxury of precision remote bomb targeting and tank advances on their schedule. Do any of these things make YOU ask the question I asked to begin with? What kind of life do you have to be leading before a bombvest looks good to you?
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,030,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
Point 1: They may not be trying to be but that is how they are being viewed. "Terrorism" is relative term depending on who is being terrorized. So the "who" is in question here. Hamas or the gaza general population. They are on par with their overwhelming response
Do you realize that there are plenty of Palestinians helping Israel and sacrificing their live to defeat Hamas. If Israel was to stop those people would be butchered and the death toll would be blamed on Israel.

Quote:
Point 2: They are misclassified huh? So the president of the United States (Dubya) falsely condemned Israels use of the non-cluster bomb. So I'm to believe that Israel's biggest ally (America) was wrong in their condemnation for the use of non-cluster bombs. Sure. Logic prevents us from agreement.
Please provide a referance, everything I have researched says they were accused of using cluster bombs but were not. So apparently someone is mistaken. A cluster bomb like the one described by Lebanese witnesses is nothing like the bombs israel has, they are more like what the terrorist have and the neighboring Arab nations including Lebanon.

Quote:
As to your question concerning Israeli deaths. I don't know the number. However, your line of thinking is exactly why there will NEVER be peace there. Keeping track of a death toll is not exactly the best way to reach a peace. I mean how far back do you go? Why not all the way back to 1948?
Because people are making a big deal about whether israel should use zero, equal, or superior retalitory force. The majority of the civilian body count is due to Hamas shooting, executing Palestinians and blaming Israel, this is from the Palestinian people themselves. The body count matters because why should Israel continue to be subject to murderous attacks and lies while Hamas perpetrates their atrocities against bothe the Israeli and Palestinians people? What is the Israeli death toll in 2008 from Hamas bombings throughout the year? It cannot be found because they do not care how many Israelis are murdered they are just concerned about how many they can blame Israel for.

Quote:
See my posts make me seem anti-Israel. Thats just not true. I'm anti bull-sh** and thats exactly what this is. I hold Israel to a higher standard than Hamas (fancy that). If Israel truly wants peace... their current route is not the way to go. Building a coaliton of countries against Hamas is the way to go. It isn't quick and it is painful but it is a long term viable solution. Tit for Tat is gives short term success and long term fail.
They honored the cease fire and allowed humaniterian service thru the blockades while Hamas never honored the ceasefire at all. There are no neighboring countries other than the common Palestinians that are willing to build a coalition with Israel because all the Arab nations want Israel wiped out. Can you not see the situation Israel is in, they have no allies in the Middle East to help stop the terror groups.
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,030,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heracles View Post
I was going to go after your post item for item but that does not seem to be working...I'll ask instead why on Earth you think for one second that Palestinians should be giddy about the presence of Israel? I suppose, because I am not there in the room with Israeli and Palestinian leaders as they make their plans, that it could be a vast conspiracy of Palestinian innocents duped by their wily leaders into hating the Israelis and blaming all their suffering on Israel and Israeli supporters. But why don't the Israelis say so? What has Israel ever done that would make the average Palestinian say "Gee, those Israelis are OK." Maybe it's the border checks. Maybe it's the strip searches. Maybe it's the torture, or the land confiscation, or the restricted water rights or the assassinations. I guess in some big sense, Israel has a 'right' to defend itself, but when it defends itself from the grief it sows, you won't see any tears from me. Again, I do not defend the Palestinians. They make poor choices but at least those choices are reactive as opposed to proactive. The Israelis have the luxury of precision remote bomb targeting and tank advances on their schedule. Do any of these things make YOU ask the question I asked to begin with? What kind of life do you have to be leading before a bombvest looks good to you?
I just covered this, the comman Palestinians are doing what they can to stop Hamas and are being wiped out for supporting and helping Israel. They are being used as human sheild and if the casualties are not severe enough to suit Hamas, then Hamas kills even more to blame on Israel. Would anyone believe Israel if they told the truth about what Hamas is doing to the Palestinian people? No because this has already been pointed out and ignored numerous times. I do defend the Palestinians and the Israelis, because Hamas and the other Terror groups and Arab nations are victimizing these people to meet their goal of the annialation of Israel. It is not a matter of a bombvest looking good to these people, they are forced into them by Hamas and those who do it willingly are coerced by their belief in a carnal afterlife and the fact that the only way they can enter paradise is to be martyred. I could do more damge to the enemy with the very same explosive that are in those vests than can be done thru suicide bombing. They are brainwashed to believe they are doing gods will, some of the suicide bomber only kill themselves while many are detonate by someone else because they are unwilling bombers.
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:57 PM
 
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Heh Robin. I love when people say, the Palestinian people should not be punished because of Hamas, yet what people make up Hamas? Who voted Hamas? Who are the suicide bombers of Hamas? who cheer on with Hamas after a terrorist attack is carried out? who fights the Israeli soldiers along with Hamas?

If it walks like a duck.........
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Old 01-07-2009, 02:04 PM
 
225 posts, read 312,769 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
I just covered this, the comman Palestinians are doing what they can to stop Hamas and are being wiped out for supporting and helping Israel. They are being used as human sheild and if the casualties are not severe enough to suit Hamas, then Hamas kills even more to blame on Israel. Would anyone believe Israel if they told the truth about what Hamas is doing to the Palestinian people? No because this has already been pointed out and ignored numerous times. I do defend the Palestinians and the Israelis, because Hamas and the other Terror groups and Arab nations are victimizing these people to meet their goal of the annialation of Israel. It is not a matter of a bombvest looking good to these people, they are forced into them by Hamas and those who do it willingly are coerced by their belief in a carnal afterlife and the fact that the only way they can enter paradise is to be martyred. I could do more damge to the enemy with the very same explosive that are in those vests than can be done thru suicide bombing. They are brainwashed to believe they are doing gods will, some of the suicide bomber only kill themselves while many are detonate by someone else because they are unwilling bombers.
So Israel does not have enough credibility with the UN and US to get the truth across and Hamas is playing them? The Palestinian leadership just wants to slaughter Palestinians for credibility although they have ample ability to deliver the explosives used in their bombvests otherwise? Ummmm, I dunno.
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Old 01-07-2009, 02:26 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,721,420 times
Reputation: 748

YouTube - Shocking testimonials about HAMAS


Escape from Hamas - From Islam to Christianity 1


Escape from Hamas - From Islam to Christianity 2


Escape from Hamas - From Islam to Christianity 3


Escape from Hamas - From Islam to Christianity 4


Escape from Hamas - From Islam to Christianity 5


Escape from Hamas - From Islam to Christianity 6




Last edited by Fundamentalist; 01-07-2009 at 02:42 PM..
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Old 01-07-2009, 02:49 PM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,208,907 times
Reputation: 1469
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Do you realize that there are plenty of Palestinians helping Israel and sacrificing their live to defeat Hamas. If Israel was to stop those people would be butchered and the death toll would be blamed on Israel.
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Whether I realize it or not has no bearing on our discussion.

Did you know that if you give pelicans an alka seltzer they explode?

See what I mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Please provide a referance, everything I have researched says they were accused of using cluster bombs but were not. So apparently someone is mistaken. A cluster bomb like the one described by Lebanese witnesses is nothing like the bombs israel has, they are more like what the terrorist have and the neighboring Arab nations including Lebanon.
Israel: cluster bomb use was legal - CNN.com

Thats some bang up research you did there. I typed "Israel cluster bomb" into the google machine and that was like the 2nd link.

I'll quote for you:

"Israel's military advocate general said the use of cluster bombs by the country's armed forces during last year's war with Hezbollah in southern Lebanon was done so in accordance with international law and, as a result, he will not file charges against any military officers who ordered their use."

So to your question of providing evidence that Israel used cluster bombs..

I present to you Israel's military advocate general. As far as proof goes having the the witness admit to the crime is pretty positive proof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Because people are making a big deal about whether israel should use zero, equal, or superior retalitory force. The majority of the civilian body count is due to Hamas shooting, executing Palestinians and blaming Israel, this is from the Palestinian people themselves.
And your source is..? Or is this just a guess?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
The body count matters because why should Israel continue to be subject to murderous attacks and lies while Hamas perpetrates their atrocities against bothe the Israeli and Palestinians people? What is the Israeli death toll in 2008 from Hamas bombings throughout the year? It cannot be found because they do not care how many Israelis are murdered they are just concerned about how many they can blame Israel for.
Asked and answered in previous post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
They honored the cease fire and allowed humaniterian service thru the blockades while Hamas never honored the ceasefire at all.
Well that was very nice of Israel. Here is 3 hours to get bandaged up and get some food in your belly. Don't want civillians dying on an empty stomach! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
There are no neighboring countries other than the common Palestinians
Please explain your use of the word "common"..

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
that are willing to build a coalition with Israel because all the Arab nations want Israel wiped out. Can you not see the situation Israel is in, they have no allies in the Middle East to help stop the terror groups.
I do see the situation Israel is in. I see them doing the same thing over and over again has amounted to nothing. I see them continuing to do the same thing over and over again because of b.s. excuses like the one you just gave.
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