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Old 01-07-2009, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Downtown Omaha
1,362 posts, read 4,200,896 times
Reputation: 526

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
You'll like to argue until kingdom come, but there's not much time. Do you feel Him? You've heard, on a daily basis right? What's stopping you? Think about it.
I used to be a big believer and when I did start to think about things I realized it was all nonsense.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:44 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,719,489 times
Reputation: 748
My bad

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
That's a crap argument. It also says in the bible that the only way to get into heaven is to be born again. If that's the "only" way how are these other people on the other side of the planet supposed to feel your god they know nothing about?

It seems like someone long ago asked a similar question to me and they through that part in the bible real quick.
It is foolish to debate the fairness of God sending someone to hell who never had the opportunity to hear the Gospel of Christ. People are responsible to God for what God has already been revealed to them. The Bible says that people reject this knowledge, and therefore God is just in condemning them to hell.

We go to hell because we broke God's Laws not because we never heard the gospel or Jesus. Something inside of us says, it's wrong and we know that there will be a consequence yet we still do it. We know lying is wrong, We know adultery is wrong, we know that murder is wrong, we know that stealing is wrong.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Downtown Omaha
1,362 posts, read 4,200,896 times
Reputation: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
It is foolish to debate the fairness of God sending someone to hell who never had the opportunity to hear the Gospel of Christ. People are responsible to God for what God has already been revealed to them. The Bible says that people reject this knowledge, and therefore God is just in condemning them to hell.

We go to hell because we broke God's Laws not because we never heard the gospel or Jesus. Something inside of us says, it's wrong and we know that there will be a consequence yet we still do it. We know lying is wrong, We know adultery is wrong, we know that murder is wrong.
First off Jesus himself said that no man comes to the Father but through me.

You christians don't believe in any other path to heaven but Jesus. It also says in the bible that it's faith and not works that gets you into heaven. From the argument you put out there you're saying people would have had to rely on what they considered good to get to a heaven and believe in a god they know nothing about. They would be judged on their works.

So is god/jesus contradicting themselves? You all think about it. If the unfallible bible says their is only one way, shouldn't their only be one way? Not going off of some feeling you may have?
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:08 AM
 
Location: LAT: 40.77 LON: 73.98
604 posts, read 982,862 times
Reputation: 142
My issue with all of this is faulty design/planning. If he is not willing that any should perish and that is why Jesus is still stuck to his throne, has anyone sent God a memo of the stats since Jesus supposedly high tailed it back to heaven? I've done this before but it think it bears repeating and I will be using the Christian concept that people who die "without Christ/God" are in some deep shiligit right now.

These are all the people supposedly in hell (perished/perishing) right now:

Babylonians
Sumerians
Assyrians
Sodomites
Gomorrahites
Amalekites
Hittites
Canaanites (with the exception of Rahab)
Jebusites
Gibeonites
Moabites (except Ruth)
Ammonites
Amorites
Akkadians
Philistines
Cretians
Ancient Greeks and countless modern ones
Ancient Romans and countless modern ones
Ancient Persians and their modern day Iranian descendants
Egyptians (then and now)
All types of Aboriginals
Indians of the Americas
Norse peoples
Mognolians

Just about everybody in the Far East (except the modern day South Korean Christians)

South Pacific Islanders
North Pacific Islanders
A whole buttload of Africans

The "many are called" crowd which includes many "Christians" depending on who is determining who is or who is not based on whatever belief is the flavor of the day.

Republicans
The French
All Muslims
Edomites
Idumeans
Samaritans
Nabateans
Huns


I'm sure I left out another few million here and there, but who's counting?

In any event, this leaves about 17.25 True Christians who will make it to heaven.

Last edited by Deguire; 01-07-2009 at 10:19 AM..
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,029,705 times
Reputation: 627
God has also said that any that have not had the opportunity to accept are not held accountable for not accepting. God is not unfair and know who has and hasnt had an opportunity.
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:10 AM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 7,630,248 times
Reputation: 3760
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
So if god wanted everyone to know about him why didn't have have a way for the people outside of the middle east to know about him or Jesus? People long ago who lived in Asia, the Aboriginals of Australia, tribes people in the jungles of Africa, the Rain Forest tribes of South America, and the pre-American-Indian tribes had no way of knowing about salvation so I guess god has just been sending people to hell based on where they live for centuries. Are you still sure he doesn't want anyone to parish?
At the time of the early disciples all people knew about Him ,(Colossians 1:23 ...the gospel...which was preached to every creature under heaven...)
but many nations of people chose to reject him. This is told over and over in the scriptures...the rejecting of Him. There is not a human alive that would be willing to be as patient as He is.

I refuse to believe God has not given all mankind the chance to know Him.
As posted before, He gets no pleasure that the wicked will die. He wants all to come to repentance...but all will not! All never have, and all never will. That is their decision, not God's.

Until you become God, and create a people of your own, you have no right to condemn how God handles His creation.
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,029,705 times
Reputation: 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deguire View Post
My issue with all of this is faulty design/planning. If he is not willing that any should perish an that is why Jesus is still stuck to his throne, has anyone sent God a memo o the stats since Jesus supposedly high tailed it back to heaven? I've done this before but it think it bears repeating and I will be using the Christian concept that people who die "without Christ/God" are in some deep shiligit right now.

These are all the people supposedly in hell (perished/perishing) right now:

Babylonians
Sumerians
Assyrians
Sodomites
Gomorrahites
Amalekites
Hittites
Canaanites (with the exception of Rahab)
Jebusites
Gibeonites
Moabites (except Ruth)
Ammonites
Amorites
Akkadians
Philistines
Cretians
Ancient Greeks and countless modern ones
Ancient Romans and countless modern ones
Ancient Persians and their modern day Iranian descendants
Egyptians (then and now)
All types of Aboriginals
Indians of the Americas
Norse peoples
Mognolians

Just about everybody in the Far East (except the modern day South Korean Christians)

South Pacific Islanders
North Pacific Islanders
A whole buttload of Africans

The "many are called" crowd which includes many "Christians" depending on who is determining who is or who is not based on whatever belief is the flavor of the day.

Republicans
The French
All Muslims
Edomites
Idumeans
Samaritans
Nabateans
Huns


I'm sure I left out another few million here and there, but who's counting.

In any event, this leaves about 17.25 True Christians who will make it to heaven.
Apparently you have read well enough to realize that many of the people of these various groups did turn back to God and many of them were murdered by their own people for doing such things as well as many split off to become another entirely different people group. Just because it is not elaborated upon or specified does not mean it did not happen.
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,029,705 times
Reputation: 627
UH, stupid question. Didnt you, DOTLuv, somewhere say that you were gay?
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:30 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,719,489 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
First off Jesus himself said that no man comes to the Father but through me.
Yes Jesus is THE ONLY WAY because it is His blood, His sacrifice that allows any man to go to heaven. God can see that person as righteous in His eyes. Jesus died for EVERYONE not just the saved because without Jesus, none are saved. Jesus came to save that which was lost. It is because of Jesus blood that any of us even have the opportunity given by God to be saved.

Quote:
You christians don't believe in any other path to heaven but Jesus. It also says in the bible that it's faith and not works that gets you into heaven. From the argument you put out there you're saying people would have had to rely on what they considered good to get to a heaven and believe in a god they know nothing about. They would be judged on their works.
It's not what people consider to be good, it's what God says is good and He reveals it to us. Paul said, he would not have known sin if not for the Law, the bible says God wrote the Law in our hearts which is why no matter where you go in the world from the big city to the remote jungles of the amazon you see moral absolutes; it is wrong to murder, it is wrong to steal, it is wrong to lie etc. What a coincidence? without the Lawgiver we would not know what is right and what is wrong and everything would be just different.

This is no work righteousness.


Quote:
So is god/jesus contradicting themselves? You all think about it. If the unfallible bible says their is only one way, shouldn't their only be one way? Not going off of some feeling you may have?
There is no contradiction, and the simple feeling you claim is a feeling that has kept people up many nights even haunted them till the day they died, "Their conscience".

What about people who died before Jesus came on the scene. What about Adam, Moses, Abraham and all the other OT saints who never met or heard the name Jesus? again it is what God reveals to each individual. God promised Adam that the Seed of the woman would conquer Satan. Adam believed Him. Abraham believed God according to the promises and new revelation God gave him in Genesis 12 and 15. Prior to Moses, no Scripture was written. (I already explained "the way" above) Mankind is responsible for what God had revealed.

Today, we have more revelation than did people living before the resurrection of Christ, we know the full picture. We are trying to reach more people all over the world and do God's will by following His command. So that more of the gospel can be revealed to people in very remote places.

Our revelation will reflect in our punishment as well, if you can believe those who heard more of the gospel and rejected it will be punished worse.

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 01-07-2009 at 10:49 AM..
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:31 AM
 
Location: LAT: 40.77 LON: 73.98
604 posts, read 982,862 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
UH, stupid question. Didnt you, DOTLuv, somewhere say that you were gay?
This has something to do with the topic?
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