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Old 01-14-2009, 06:56 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,716,016 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StirringWaters View Post
That sounds like a loaded question. lol I really don't know what you mean by offensive or by Itself. I'll be happy to answer when I do understand. lol
I really don't see it as a loaded question...ummmmm. Is the message of the gospel offensive in todays world?

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 01-14-2009 at 07:05 PM..
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,277,120 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I really don't see it as a loaded question...ummmmm. Is the message of the gospel offensive in todays world?
Well, you didn't ask me, but I'd say "yes".

Back then - it was a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the gentiles.
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:49 PM
 
40,052 posts, read 26,730,521 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I really don't see it as a loaded question...ummmmm. Is the message of the gospel offensive in todays world?
No . . . I do not find the gospel of Jesus Christ to be offensive in today's world. I DO find the primitive interpretations and literal readings of the barbaric OT to be very offensive in today's world . . . just as ANY 1st century mind would be if they were transported to the current day. You apparently have no idea of the psychological milieu these people inhabited . . . wherein sacrifice (even human) was not an alien concept but a familiar ritualistic notion from their heritage . . . among many other barbarities with ritual significance and precedent.
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:02 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 10,010,500 times
Reputation: 58210
ooooh, I'm so offended..........whaaaaaaaaaaaa

I'm way too evolved to have ever come from those barbarians!!! After all, I evolved from monkeys, not barbarians!!!

I say what MY truth is, not this barbaric God entity. Therefore, that nasty barbaric OT is complete fiction and nonsense, but I say it's ok to believe in that Jesus fellow....he's sound really nice and fairly intelligent.

Now if anyone disagrees with me, get prepared to be insulted by my highly intelligent swollen head.
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:20 PM
 
40,052 posts, read 26,730,521 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord View Post
I say what MY truth is, not this barbaric God entity.
You keep assigning the problem to God, DOTL . . . when it it the barbaric descriptions of God produced by barbarian minds with little to no resemblance to modern day civilized minds that is the problem. You resonate with the barbarity of it for some reason and can accept it as readily as those 1st century minds did. Fine. So be it. I cannot.
Quote:
Therefore, that nasty barbaric OT is complete fiction and nonsense,
There you go again . . . misrepresenting. It is NOT fiction . . . it is MISINTERPRETED barbarism.
Quote:
but I say it's ok to believe in that Jesus fellow....he's sound really nice and fairly intelligent.
He had God's consciousness, DOTL . . . you don't get any better than that!
Quote:
Now if anyone disagrees with me, get prepared to be insulted by my highly intelligent swollen head.
If anything I say is found insulting to anyone personally . . . it is unintentional. I find the CONCEPT of literally reading and interpreting scripture to be insulting to an informed modern intellect . . . but I would not presume to insult people who find it acceptable and spiritually enlightening.

Last edited by MysticPhD; 01-14-2009 at 10:34 PM..
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:28 AM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,901,527 times
Reputation: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I really don't see it as a loaded question...ummmmm. Is the message of the gospel offensive in todays world?
I'm praying about this. I'll answer you when I can. Who first coined the term of "the offensive Gospel"? Was it in retaliation to the message of God's love?

While I am praying about this, I am wondering how someone can present the Gospel without first praying and asking to be led about it? Also, using context, the people we present the Gospel to today, in our society, is different than the society in the NT. I doubt there is a person alive today in our society (by that I mean in the country you and I live in) that hasn't heard of Jesus...the Gospel. That is very contrary to how it was when the apostles were going around. It was shocking then. There is no shock value today.

Anyway...I'm praying about it.
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:39 AM
 
4,512 posts, read 6,729,835 times
Reputation: 813
Thumbs down yeah whaaaaaaa

Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord View Post
ooooh, I'm so offended..........whaaaaaaaaaaaa

I'm way too evolved to have ever come from those barbarians!!! After all, I evolved from monkeys, not barbarians!!!

I say what MY truth is, not this barbaric God entity. Therefore, that nasty barbaric OT is complete fiction and nonsense, but I say it's ok to believe in that Jesus fellow....he's sound really nice and fairly intelligent.

Now if anyone disagrees with me, get prepared to be insulted by my highly intelligent swollen head.

So much for "the new and eternal trust" Jesus was very clear about!!!
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:13 AM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,901,527 times
Reputation: 290
I do not think the Gospel is offensive. I think offensive is the wrong word. I think the Gospel is humbling. We are a pride-filled creation.

I think the presentation can be offensive. I think people speak before praying...speak before asking the Lord to lead them... (I include myself in all of these.) I think God created each of us as unique individuals, so one presentation does not fit all.

God fits all.

We all come to the Lord through different circumstances, do we not? Loss of a loved one, anyone? That isn't fear of hell and damnation. That isn't based on being a sinner.

As I have grown, through the grace of God, in my relationship with Him (which is separate and apart from anyone else's relationship with Him), I have left behind the cherry-picking of verses and let the dwelling of all Biblical teachings dwell in my heart for the Lord to bloom inside of me. Sound pretty? Not harsh enough? Sorry. He is the Potter; I am the clay. He wrote His words on my heart.

I do not believe all people will come to the Lord by having the Lord's Word yelled at them...or with a hand raised heavenward holding a Bible while screaming BE SAVED. IF, and I don't say that lightly, IF God leads someone to present that way, so be it. IF He does not and someone is doing that to present the Gospel as offensive, then shame on him for not asking God's guidance in the matter. Some seem to think that because they know so much of God's Word or have been a believer for a certain amount of time that they have some kind of free reign or something. That is not so. The Lord must be in control. We must pray that He lead us to present. Just because we know the Word does not mean we can use it in any way we choose.

Some like to be loud and offensive and brash...scoff at people that say God is love. They should be ashamed.

"God is love." -1 John 4:8

Again...

"God is love." -1 John 4:16

There are not two ways to tell the Gospel...offensive vs love. They are one and the same! You can't pick one or the other. You can present one or the other.

All over the place in God's Word we are advised to be patient and kind and gentle and humble...yet some blind their eyes to it so they can browbeat and judge and yell and scream and hold their Bible to the sky. Why?

We should daily humble ourselves before the Lord before we dare present Him to the world. We should commit ourselves to Him daily instead of relying on what we consider our knowledge.

"We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up." 1 Corinthians 8:1 Ooops...there's that love word again.

"The man who thinks he knows something does not YET know as he ought to know. But the man who loves God is known to God." 1 Corinthians 8:2-3

"Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak." 1 Corinthians 8:9

"So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ." 1 Corinthians 8:11-12

We should stop blinding ourselves the all of God's Word instead of select verses and passages...because I rarely hear of talk of the fruit of the Spirit that we should have...

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control." Galatians 5:22

Now, if we cannot see those things in ourselves...if others consistently say they see other things in us...we have a problem on our hands. Do we pridefully deafen our ears to those people and only open them for the ones that say what we want to hear? Or do we go to the Lord and ask for His help? Do we not open our Bibles to the other books, chapters, verses, or do we continually open them up only to the ones we want to continue to proclaim?

Paul died daily to the Lord. The least we can do is humbly submit ourselves, commit ourselves to Him each morning instead of waking up ready to debate a few select things...to scoff at those the Lord has led to be as He wants them to be.

The Gospel is not offensive to me...saying it is would be like saying the Lord is offensive to me. I will never portray the Lord as offensive. I will present Him the way He wants me to present Him...at His leading...not because I have been told to do it. Commit and submit. Humble ourselves. Grow in the fruits of the Spirit.

Love the Lord your God with all you heart, all your soul, and all your mind. Love your neighbor as yourself.

The Gospel, the Lord is not offensive. He is love.

I thank Christ that He has unlimited patience. I thank God that He had mercy on me.
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:30 AM
 
4,541 posts, read 13,124,456 times
Reputation: 2285
Default really an excellent post....

Quote:
Originally Posted by StirringWaters View Post
I do not think the Gospel is offensive. I think offensive is the wrong word. I think the Gospel is humbling. We are a pride-filled creation.

I think the presentation can be offensive. I think people speak before praying...speak before asking the Lord to lead them... (I include myself in all of these.) I think God created each of us as unique individuals, so one presentation does not fit all.

God fits all.

We all come to the Lord through different circumstances, do we not? Loss of a loved one, anyone? That isn't fear of hell and damnation. That isn't based on being a sinner.

As I have grown, through the grace of God, in my relationship with Him (which is separate and apart from anyone else's relationship with Him), I have left behind the cherry-picking of verses and let the dwelling of all Biblical teachings dwell in my heart for the Lord to bloom inside of me. Sound pretty? Not harsh enough? Sorry. He is the Potter; I am the clay. He wrote His words on my heart.

I do not believe all people will come to the Lord by having the Lord's Word yelled at them...or with a hand raised heavenward holding a Bible while screaming BE SAVED. IF, and I don't say that lightly, IF God leads someone to present that way, so be it. IF He does not and someone is doing that to present the Gospel as offensive, then shame on him for not asking God's guidance in the matter. Some seem to think that because they know so much of God's Word or have been a believer for a certain amount of time that they have some kind of free reign or something. That is not so. The Lord must be in control. We must pray that He lead us to present. Just because we know the Word does not mean we can use it in any way we choose.

Some like to be loud and offensive and brash...scoff at people that say God is love. They should be ashamed.

"God is love." -1 John 4:8

Again...

"God is love." -1 John 4:16

There are not two ways to tell the Gospel...offensive vs love. They are one and the same! You can't pick one or the other. You can present one or the other.

All over the place in God's Word we are advised to be patient and kind and gentle and humble...yet some blind their eyes to it so they can browbeat and judge and yell and scream and hold their Bible to the sky. Why?

We should daily humble ourselves before the Lord before we dare present Him to the world. We should commit ourselves to Him daily instead of relying on what we consider our knowledge.

"We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up." 1 Corinthians 8:1 Ooops...there's that love word again.

"The man who thinks he knows something does not YET know as he ought to know. But the man who loves God is known to God." 1 Corinthians 8:2-3

"Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak." 1 Corinthians 8:9

"So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ." 1 Corinthians 8:11-12

We should stop blinding ourselves the all of God's Word instead of select verses and passages...because I rarely hear of talk of the fruit of the Spirit that we should have...

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control." Galatians 5:22

Now, if we cannot see those things in ourselves...if others consistently say they see other things in us...we have a problem on our hands. Do we pridefully deafen our ears to those people and only open them for the ones that say what we want to hear? Or do we go to the Lord and ask for His help? Do we not open our Bibles to the other books, chapters, verses, or do we continually open them up only to the ones we want to continue to proclaim?

Paul died daily to the Lord. The least we can do is humbly submit ourselves, commit ourselves to Him each morning instead of waking up ready to debate a few select things...to scoff at those the Lord has led to be as He wants them to be.

The Gospel is not offensive to me...saying it is would be like saying the Lord is offensive to me. I will never portray the Lord as offensive. I will present Him the way He wants me to present Him...at His leading...not because I have been told to do it. Commit and submit. Humble ourselves. Grow in the fruits of the Spirit.

Love the Lord your God with all you heart, all your soul, and all your mind. Love your neighbor as yourself.

The Gospel, the Lord is not offensive. He is love.

I thank Christ that He has unlimited patience. I thank God that He had mercy on me.
I can't rep you yet!
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:33 AM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,901,527 times
Reputation: 290
To God be the glory forever and ever AMEN.
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