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Old 01-15-2009, 09:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StirringWaters View Post
I do not think the Gospel is offensive. I think offensive is the wrong word. I think the Gospel is humbling. We are a pride-filled creation.

I think the presentation can be offensive. I think people speak before praying...speak before asking the Lord to lead them... (I include myself in all of these.) I think God created each of us as unique individuals, so one presentation does not fit all.

God fits all.

We all come to the Lord through different circumstances, do we not? Loss of a loved one, anyone? That isn't fear of hell and damnation. That isn't based on being a sinner.

As I have grown, through the grace of God, in my relationship with Him (which is separate and apart from anyone else's relationship with Him), I have left behind the cherry-picking of verses and let the dwelling of all Biblical teachings dwell in my heart for the Lord to bloom inside of me. Sound pretty? Not harsh enough? Sorry. He is the Potter; I am the clay. He wrote His words on my heart.

I do not believe all people will come to the Lord by having the Lord's Word yelled at them...or with a hand raised heavenward holding a Bible while screaming BE SAVED. IF, and I don't say that lightly, IF God leads someone to present that way, so be it. IF He does not and someone is doing that to present the Gospel as offensive, then shame on him for not asking God's guidance in the matter. Some seem to think that because they know so much of God's Word or have been a believer for a certain amount of time that they have some kind of free reign or something. That is not so. The Lord must be in control. We must pray that He lead us to present. Just because we know the Word does not mean we can use it in any way we choose.

Some like to be loud and offensive and brash...scoff at people that say God is love. They should be ashamed.

"God is love." -1 John 4:8

Again...

"God is love." -1 John 4:16

There are not two ways to tell the Gospel...offensive vs love. They are one and the same! You can't pick one or the other. You can present one or the other.

All over the place in God's Word we are advised to be patient and kind and gentle and humble...yet some blind their eyes to it so they can browbeat and judge and yell and scream and hold their Bible to the sky. Why?

We should daily humble ourselves before the Lord before we dare present Him to the world. We should commit ourselves to Him daily instead of relying on what we consider our knowledge.

"We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up." 1 Corinthians 8:1 Ooops...there's that love word again.

"The man who thinks he knows something does not YET know as he ought to know. But the man who loves God is known to God." 1 Corinthians 8:2-3

"Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak." 1 Corinthians 8:9

"So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ." 1 Corinthians 8:11-12

We should stop blinding ourselves the all of God's Word instead of select verses and passages...because I rarely hear of talk of the fruit of the Spirit that we should have...

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control." Galatians 5:22

Now, if we cannot see those things in ourselves...if others consistently say they see other things in us...we have a problem on our hands. Do we pridefully deafen our ears to those people and only open them for the ones that say what we want to hear? Or do we go to the Lord and ask for His help? Do we not open our Bibles to the other books, chapters, verses, or do we continually open them up only to the ones we want to continue to proclaim?

Paul died daily to the Lord. The least we can do is humbly submit ourselves, commit ourselves to Him each morning instead of waking up ready to debate a few select things...to scoff at those the Lord has led to be as He wants them to be.

The Gospel is not offensive to me...saying it is would be like saying the Lord is offensive to me. I will never portray the Lord as offensive. I will present Him the way He wants me to present Him...at His leading...not because I have been told to do it. Commit and submit. Humble ourselves. Grow in the fruits of the Spirit.

Love the Lord your God with all you heart, all your soul, and all your mind. Love your neighbor as yourself.

The Gospel, the Lord is not offensive. He is love.

I thank Christ that He has unlimited patience. I thank God that He had mercy on me.
This is beautiful and full of God's love and the holy spirit, StirringWaters . . . clearly God spoke to your heart when you prayed before answering this question. There is so much in this post to comment on . . . but it would detract from its power to do so. God is Love!
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Old 01-15-2009, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,276,862 times
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Great post, StirringWaters!

If the question is how does the world see the gospel, I still think it is offended.
There is the issue of sin.
That's the very reason why Jesus died - to remove that which separates us from God.
Most people will admit to not being perfect, but nobody wants to think of themselves as sinners who don't measure up.

It's too degrading.

Some people think of someone hanging on a cross as morose and even perverse.
So, is the gospel offensive to people who think they have no need of salvation?
Yes.
...Just step outside into the larger forum.
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Old 01-15-2009, 09:54 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,713,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StirringWaters View Post
I do not think the Gospel is offensive. I think offensive is the wrong word. I think the Gospel is humbling. We are a pride-filled creation.

I think the presentation can be offensive. I think people speak before praying...speak before asking the Lord to lead them... (I include myself in all of these.) I think God created each of us as unique individuals, so one presentation does not fit all.

God fits all......
That was beautifully written. The gospel say, there is only one truth. Would that offend the world?

The gospel says, that Jesus is the only way, Hindus are wrong; muslims are wrong. Does that offend the world?

The gospel says that Jesus loves us so we must receive Him to go to heaven for breaking God's law or you will go to hell to suffer eternal torment. Does that offend the world?

The gospel says, Go ye therefore and teach all nations, We are to proclaim the ONLY truth to everyone. Does that offend the world?
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Old 01-15-2009, 09:58 AM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,901,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
That was beautifully written. The gospel say, there is only one truth. Would that offend the word?

The gospel says, that Jesus is the only way, Hindus are wrong; muslims are wrong. Does that offend the world?

The gospel says that Jesus loves us so we must receive Him to go to heaven for breaking God's law or you will go to hell. Does that offend the world?

The gospel says, Go ye therefore and teach all nations, We are proclaim the ONLY truth to everyone. Does that offend?
Beautifully written. To God be the glory forever and ever AMEN.

All answers within original post.

Let all of the Lord's Word dwell in your heart. God's grace to you.
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:06 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,713,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StirringWaters View Post
Beautifully written. To God be the glory forever and ever AMEN.

All answers within original post.

Let all of the Lord's Word dwell in your heart. God's grace to you.
I ask you, does that gospel offend? How can you get around the gospel without offending someone?
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:08 AM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,901,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I ask you, does that gospel offend? How can you get around the gospel without offending someone?
The Lord led me in my post. It stands as my answer. You must not like my answer. I will not change it for you. Take it to the Lord in prayer.
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:27 AM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,901,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio View Post
...Just step outside into the larger forum.
I saw a thread out there this morning called Christian Atheist. Talk about an oxymoron.
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:30 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,713,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StirringWaters View Post
The Lord led me in my post. It stands as my answer. You must not like my answer. I will not change it for you. Take it to the Lord in prayer.
You were just telling me how to witness using that as a way to answer the question. Oh well no problem

(Hebrews 4:12) 12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

(John 14:6) 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

(John 3:16) 16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

(Ephesians 2:8-9) 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

(1 Peter 1:8-9) 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

(1 John 5:13) 13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.


(Acts 2:38) 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

(Matthew 7:13-14)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

(John 3:19)
19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

(Matthew 25:31-46)

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will
...
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:32 AM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,901,103 times
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My heart was singing reading through those verses that are written on my heart. Then I got to one that you left un-italicized. Why didn't you italicize Matthew 7:13-14?
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:38 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,713,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StirringWaters View Post
My heart was singing reading through those verses that are written on my heart. Then I got to one that you left un-italicized. Why didn't you italicize Matthew 7:13-14?
Sorry, missed it. . Stirringwaters I try to do the best I can and yes I pray that God gives me the words and boldness to go out there and witness in love but you have to understand, I can go out there with a smile on my face and say, I love you brother and I care deeply for your salvation which is why I have to tell you about the gospel, which tells this Muslim brother he is wrong in his faith and that Jesus is the only way. as I get spat on being called intolerant and arrogant standing there and just having to take it, rejoicing that I just chalked up another reward in heaven.
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