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Old 01-15-2009, 10:45 AM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,901,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Sorry, missed it. . Stirringwaters I try to do the best I can and yes I pray that God gives me the words and boldness to go out there and witness in love but you have to understand, I can go out there with a smile on my face and say, I love you brother and I care deeply for your salvation which is why I have to tell you about the gospel, which tells this Muslim brother he is wrong in his faith and that Jesus is the only way. as I get spat on being called intolerant and arrogant standing there and just having to take it, rejoicing that I just chalked up another reward in heaven.
Good. I had to ask because sometimes people do that for a serious reason. I didn't want to miss it or seem as if I was ignoring it.

We can only be who He has made us to be. I feel for you. A heavy heart isn't a light load. Don't forget to take some time just to rest in the Lord.

I want to talk to you, but I don't want to hurt you. Sometimes you're just such a downer to me...I have to go crying to the Lord because I think I am failing in such a huge way because I am not loud or mean or a debater. Then I have to beat myself up for doubting Him.

Please let me be who He has made me to be. Please let others be who He has made them to be. Please allow each of us to be formed by Him. We need to be careful with each other...lift each other up and encourage. It isn't always about being right, debating, and rebuking... Sometimes I just want to read without having my carnal side want to lash out with mean-spiritedness.

Have a good day in the Lord, fundamentalist. With all sincerity, I do love you as a brother in Christ.
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:34 PM
 
178 posts, read 348,863 times
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The question is "Is the message of the gospel offensive in todays world?"

I think the answer is, it depends.

If we are sincere seekers of the truth and recognize that we are a creation of our Father in heaven and want to please Him, then there can be nothing offensive in the divine word of our Creator.

If we believe we are the product of some happenstance cosmic boom that had to occur at the precise moment in time and space, with the precise amount of force, in the exact window of opportunity, which is, by all educated scientific estimations, a one in a "ba-zillion" chance of success, whereby we all evolved from primordial ooze into what we see in the mirror, then we may be offended.

I still go back to the excellent post by Goodpasture where he wrote...
What you do, when you encounter someone you feel moved to approach with the Gospel, is pray. Pray constantly. Ask that God's will be done, and if it is in God's will, that the person you are praying about will open the door. You see, Jesus will prepare his/her heart.....Jesus will bring him/her to you....you do not have to do a thing except 1) be available, 2) make your life a witness, and 3) be prepared to explain salvation and what freedom in Jesus is all about. Now, live your life like Jesus would want you to live so the person can see Jesus in you. And when (not if) you are approached, try to be pleasant, be helpful, be instructive.........

A hint.......don't talk very much about hell. I know, you know, the person will one day know, that hell is a very real reality. But we want people to embrace the love of the Lord, not cling in fear.......we don't want to blackmail them into salvation......once they get over the fear they tend to fall away. But if they embrace Jesus in Love they tend to develop a personal relationship with Him and they tend to stay excited about it.

If we all took this approach, then it matters not whether people are offended. This is a sound biblical approach to witnessing that I believe was as close as we can get to how Jesus and the apostles spread God's word.
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Old 02-06-2009, 02:02 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,643,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio View Post
Well, you didn't ask me, but I'd say "yes".

Back then - it was a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the gentiles.
I have to agree here with Richio, but I would have used a different word. Pehaps it was your choice of the word 'offensive' that made SW disagree??

Perhaps if you would have used the word 'foolishness' ....

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

foolishness #3472. moria mo-ree'-ah from 3474; silliness, i.e. absurdity:--foolishness.

3474. moros mo-ros' probably from the base of 3466; dull or stupid (as if shut up), i.e. heedless, (morally) blockhead, (apparently) absurd:--fool(-ish, X -ishness).
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:37 PM
 
40,053 posts, read 26,730,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
That was beautifully written. The gospel say, there is only one truth. Would that offend the world?

The gospel says, that Jesus is the only way, Hindus are wrong; muslims are wrong. Does that offend the world?

The gospel says that Jesus loves us so we must receive Him to go to heaven for breaking God's law or you will go to hell to suffer eternal torment. Does that offend the world?

The gospel says, Go ye therefore and teach all nations, We are to proclaim the ONLY truth to everyone. Does that offend the world?
Quote:
I ask you, does that gospel offend? How can you get around the gospel without offending someone?
The way you do it without offending is by witnessing to YOUR understanding of the one truth . . . not presumptuously proclaiming that YOUR understanding is the absolute truth . . . because you are a fallible human being and have no basis on which to make such a claim of infallibility. Then leave out all your little surmises that stem from YOUR understanding that are NOT specifically in the scriptures . . . like Hindus are wrong, Muslims are wrong, Christians are not Christians according to you, etc, etc. Get the picture, Fundy?
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:51 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,716,016 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The way you do it without offending is by witnessing to YOUR understanding of the one truth . . . not presumptuously proclaiming that YOUR understanding is the absolute truth . . . because you are a fallible human being and have no basis on which to make such a claim of infallibility. Then leave out all your little surmises that stem from YOUR understanding that are NOT specifically in the scriptures . . . like Hindus are wrong, Muslims are wrong, Christians are not Christians according to you, etc, etc. Get the picture, Fundy?
You are like a one trick pony, just no depth to your broken record. Same thing over and over again. Your mysticial thinking is so minute compared to the beauty of the entire gospel; Law to the proud and grace to the humble

You have no understanding of the gospel, only the Oprah like gobbily goop that you make up in your head. No structure, no foundation, just mystical nonsense. Mysticism and Christianity is an oxy moron. The reason you don't like the Apostle Paul is that he fought mysticism.

You say you have understanding, you have none because you don't even believe the bible. God's word scares you. Oh you will say, I scare you and quote scripture, scripture you don't even believe in so what's the point? You want to wrap yourself in Jesus exact words and discard the rest because you don't like the rest of it other than the verses that you can agree with. It's all about mystical feelings with you, your sinful, fallible, immature nature of not undertanding the true gospel just that muckety muck mess you call the gospel. If you so love and hold on to everyone of Jesus words, why don't you cling to the words when He comes back. It's not the same Jesus who was humble and came as a servant instead He will come as a King and He will rule with an iron scepter.

How do you explain that Jesus, oh wait you don't believe in the bible because it was written by men.

Have the guts and say it. You don't believe Jesus is the ONLY way

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 02-06-2009 at 09:24 PM..
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:27 PM
 
40,053 posts, read 26,730,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
You have no understanding of the gospel, only the Oprah like gobbily goop that you make up in your head. No structure, no foundation, just mystical nonsense. Mysticism and Christianity is an oxy moron. The reason you don't like the Apostle Paul is that he fought mysticism.
Where on earth did you get that I don't like Paul, Fundy. Mysticism and Christianity are both concerned with the spiritual world . . . not the body and the physical world. What do you think is meant by come out from the world, Fundy? You seem to be mindlessly following something you don't even understand.
Quote:
You say you have understanding, you have none because you don't even believe the bible. God's word scares you. Oh you will say, I scare you and quote scripture, scripture you don't even believe in so what's the point? You want to wrap yourself in Jesus exact words and discard the rest because you don't like the rest of it other than the verses that you can agree with. It's all about mystical feelings with you, your sinful, fallible, immature nature of not undertanding the true gospel just that muckety muck mess you call the gospel.
Whoa . . don't hold back now, Fundy . . . tell us how you really feel. So much love . . . it's almost smothering me (surely Jesus is in your heart) . . . is this that "tough" kind of love . . . or what?
Quote:
If you so love and hold on to everyone of Jesus words, why don't you clings to the words when He comes back. It's not the same Jesus who was humble and came as a servant instead He will come as a King and He will rule with an iron scepter.
You and I are expecting two very different Jesus's, Fundy. Seems like you are looking for the kind of Jesus the Jews were expecting . . . so they missed out and rejected Jesus. You are in my prayers, Fundy.
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:33 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,716,016 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Where on earth did you get that I don't like Paul, Fundy. Mysticism and Christianity are both concerned with the spiritual world . . . not the body and the physical world. What do you think is meant by come out from the world, Fundy? You seem to be mindlessly following something you don't even understand. Whoa . . don't hold back now, Fundy . . . tell us how you really feel. So much love . . . it's almost smothering me (surely Jesus is in your heart) . . . is this that "tough" kind of love . . . or what? You and I are expecting two very different Jesus's, Fundy. Seems like you are looking for the kind of Jesus the Jews were expecting . . . so they missed out and rejected Jesus. You are in my prayers, Fundy.
I see you didn't answer the question. Mystical do you believe Jesus is the ONLY way? will Hindus, muslims etc...who do not receivet him will not enter heaven?
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:38 PM
 
40,053 posts, read 26,730,521 times
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
How do you explain that Jesus, oh wait you don't believe in the bible because it was written by men.
I believe in the bible because it was inspired by God and I KNOW it was written by men.
Quote:
Have the guts and say it. You don't believe Jesus is the ONLY way
Jesus IS the only way, Fundy . . . just not in the way you understand it. Without Jesus . . . our sinful human consciousnesses would have zero chance of joining with God consciousness. Because Jesus was human and his consciousness is identical to God's . . . NOW we have a human consciousness that IS connected to God and if we merge with it in LOVE we are connected also. It is as simple as that . . . and apparently as difficult for some like you, Fundy. I pray you will see the light.
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:43 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,716,016 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I believe in the bible because it was inspired by God and I KNOW it was written by men. Jesus IS the only way, Fundy . . . just not in the way you understand it. Without Jesus . . . our sinful human consciousnesses would have zero chance of joining with God consciousness. Because Jesus was human and his consciousness is identical to God's . . . NOW we have a human consciousness that IS connected to God and if we merge with it in LOVE we are connected also. It is as simple as that . . . and apparently as difficult for some like you, Fundy. I pray you will see the light.
There is only one way Mystical-the bible's way. The rest of what you said IS NOT in the bible, the same thing you argue with me that I say things that are not in the bible when you yourself are doing the same thing. "Sharing God's consciousness" What verse is that? Sorry this sounds like the Church of Oprah.

Do you believe that you must repent and put your trust in Him to go to heaven? you know like the bible says.

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 02-06-2009 at 09:59 PM..
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:14 PM
 
40,053 posts, read 26,730,521 times
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
There is only one way Mystical-the bible's way. The rest of what you said IS NOT in the bible, the same thing you argue with me that I say things that are not in the bible when you yourself are doing the same thing. "Sharing God's consciousness" What verse is that? Sorry this sounds like the Church of Oprah.
Your "Biblianity" is not the way, Fundy. Jesus is the way and Jesus IS the Word of God (see John
). You are free to ignore whatever is not in the bible . . . but the only part of you that has the ability to be eternal is your consciousness (spirit) . . . your body cannot.
Quote:
Do you believe that you must repent and put your trust in Him to go to heaven? you know like the bible says.
I have indicated in other posts, Fundy that repentance is necessary. It is absolutely vital that we "replay" those "passages" of our consciousness' "Soul Symphony" that were "out of tune" with Jesus or our whole symphony is ruined and remains ruined. That's what repentance is.
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