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Old 02-06-2009, 10:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Your "Biblianity" is not the way, Fundy. Jesus is the way and Jesus IS the Word of God (see John
). You are free to ignore whatever is not in the bible . . . but the only part of you that has the ability to be eternal is your consciousness (spirit) . . . your body cannot. I have indicated in other posts, Fundy that repentance is necessary. It is absolutely vital that we "replay" those "passages" of our consciousness' "Soul Symphony" that were "out of tune" with Jesus or our whole symphony is ruined and remains ruined. That's what repentance is.
Repentance mean change, a turning away. so you believe good, law abiding, wonderful, loving, kind giving atheists, muslims etc... will not enter heaven?
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Repentance mean change, a turning away. so you believe good, law abiding, wonderful, loving, kind giving atheists, muslims etc... will not enter heaven?
I do NOT . . . apparently you do not believe Paul. If they achieve a state of mind that is "in tune" with Jesus' (connected in agape love "even for the least") whether or not they know or acknowledge Him (their thoughts accuse or defend them) . . . they have succeeded without the law or any specific beliefs by the love written in their hearts. They will have achieved what you seem unable to comprehend even with all the BELIEF you claim to have.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I do NOT . . . apparently you do not believe Paul. If they achieve a state of mind that is "in tune" with Jesus' (connected in agape love "even for the least") whether or not they know or acknowledge Him (their thoughts accuse or defend them) . . . they have succeeded without the law or any specific beliefs by the love written in their hearts. They will have achieved what you seem unable to comprehend even with all the BELIEF you claim to have.
Oh I study Paul, all of it and not the twisted version you portray becaus you don't have a right understanding of the gospel evident by there is nothing you say that's in the bible. Jesus was very clear, there is none good but God and Paul was clear that we are all sinners and deserve hell because we broke God's Laws. There is none good, no not one.

God said, all our good deeds are of filthy rags to Him, God hates sin and when we sin we are condemned but it is becuase of the blood of Christ which will save us from such a fate. We repent and put our trust in Christ and the Holy Spirit indwells us. People who simply love and live a "good" life will never understand what is like to have the Holy Spirit no matter how strong the "god consciouness" they believe they share because it's not in the bible and if that's the case then they cannot be born again. Jesus said, unless a man be born again, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
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Old 02-07-2009, 07:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I do NOT . . . apparently you do not believe Paul. If they achieve a state of mind that is "in tune" with Jesus' (connected in agape love "even for the least") whether or not they know or acknowledge Him (their thoughts accuse or defend them) . . . they have succeeded without the law or any specific beliefs by the love written in their hearts. They will have achieved what you seem unable to comprehend even with all the BELIEF you claim to have.
In the interest of truth and understanding, I must respectfully ask for clarification on your point.

Is it your understanding that one can achieve salvation through Christ even if no conscious and overt acknowledgment, repentance or submission is made to Him?
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Old 02-07-2009, 04:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by antjraf View Post
In the interest of truth and understanding, I must respectfully ask for clarification on your point.

Is it your understanding that one can achieve salvation through Christ even if no conscious and overt acknowledgment, repentance or submission is made to Him?
OK. You are asking for my personal understanding of the terms you are using and their import to our spiritual connection with Jesus. It will not be as simple as yours, I suspect . . . and it is only my opinion based on extensive study in many areas of knowledge. I make no other claims for it.

The use of "belief" and some "magical transformation" resulting from it is an acceptable motivator . . . if that is what it takes for someone to achieve the "state of mind" and "replaying" of the "passages" in their lives when their consciousness was "out of tune" with Jesus's as long as the "replaying" is done in true "remorse"and agape love. (THAT is what repentance is to me). But that "replaying" in "remorse" can be achieved by anyone because the author (Jesus) of the urging to do so exists within ALL human consciousness and is freely available since the crucifixion.

When Jesus died and was reborn (you prefer resurrected) as Spirit (which is the same process we are supposed to go through upon death) . . . His consciousness (holy spirit) became omnipresent (no need for his physical presence) in ALL human consciousness and is simultaneously connected to God consciousness. Those who respond to His omnipresent spiritual urgings are accepting and responding to Jesus whatever their motives or understandings might be. Those who don't are rejecting Jesus regardless what their motives or understandings might be. WE do not CALL Jesus into our consciousness by professing beliefs or adoration or worship or whatever . . . we simply respond or not to the urgings that are there from His omnipresence. Jesus CALLS US in love.

Interpret that as you will . . . but I do not believe it was some simplistic egotistical need for acknowledgment or worship that Jesus brought to us. (Jesus has no such ego needs.) Jesus brought the connection to eternal life to ALL of us. The love and adoration we Christians who know of Jesus have . . . is a natural response that provides a quicker and more accessible connection to Jesus's human consciousness(holy spirit) than is possible for those who do not know of Him or who reject any concept of God. But NOTHING is impossible for God, IMO.
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Old 02-07-2009, 08:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
OK. You are asking for my personal understanding of the terms you are using and their import to our spiritual connection with Jesus. It will not be as simple as yours, I suspect . . . and it is only my opinion based on extensive study in many areas of knowledge. I make no other claims for it.

The use of "belief" and some "magical transformation" resulting from it is an acceptable motivator . . . if that is what it takes for someone to achieve the "state of mind" and "replaying" of the "passages" in their lives when their consciousness was "out of tune" with Jesus's as long as the "replaying" is done in true "remorse"and agape love. (THAT is what repentance is to me). But that "replaying" in "remorse" can be achieved by anyone because the author (Jesus) of the urging to do so exists within ALL human consciousness and is freely available since the crucifixion.

When Jesus died and was reborn (you prefer resurrected) as Spirit (which is the same process we are supposed to go through upon death) . . . His consciousness (holy spirit) became omnipresent (no need for his physical presence) in ALL human consciousness and is simultaneously connected to God consciousness. Those who respond to His omnipresent spiritual urgings are accepting and responding to Jesus whatever their motives or understandings might be. Those who don't are rejecting Jesus regardless what their motives or understandings might be. WE do not CALL Jesus into our consciousness by professing beliefs or adoration or worship or whatever . . . we simply respond or not to the urgings that are there from His omnipresence. Jesus CALLS US in love.

Interpret that as you will . . . but I do not believe it was some simplistic egotistical need for acknowledgment or worship that Jesus brought to us. (Jesus has no such ego needs.) Jesus brought the connection to eternal life to ALL of us. The love and adoration we Christians who know of Jesus have . . . is a natural response that provides a quicker and more accessible connection to Jesus's human consciousness(holy spirit) than is possible for those who do not know of Him or who reject any concept of God. But NOTHING is impossible for God, IMO.
And what is an example of "responding to His omnipresent spiritual urgings"?

What is not responding?
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Old 02-07-2009, 09:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by antjraf View Post
And what is an example of "responding to His omnipresent spiritual urgings"?
When we are living our lives in a "state of mind" that produces the following:Matthew 25:35-40 (King James Version)

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


Quote:
What is not responding?
When we are living our lives in a "state of mind" that produces the following:Matthew 25:42-45 (King James Version)


42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
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Old 02-08-2009, 06:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
When we are living our lives in a "state of mind" that produces the following:Matthew 25:35-40 (King James Version)

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

When we are living our lives in a "state of mind" that produces the following:Matthew 25:42-45 (King James Version)


42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
I can see how this does apply to those in the world of history which have never had the benefit of the written Word as a testimony to study and refer to. God has no encumberances, he can give any one who truly seeks Him the devine knowledge and Holy Spirit. However, those who have heard and do have the testimony of the Gospels, as well as other sources, are aware of Jesus the Christ's life and purpose. Shouldn't there be by default a cognizant and conscious acknowledgement of Him since the awareness exists? I think when we try to exclusively compare the works of men with the works of Jesus we get into a little trouble. No man or woman who ever existed could compare, since Jesus was the only one who could bear the burden of the sins of the entire world.
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by antjraf View Post
I can see how this does apply to those in the world of history which have never had the benefit of the written Word as a testimony to study and refer to. God has no encumberances, he can give any one who truly seeks Him the devine knowledge and Holy Spirit. However, those who have heard and do have the testimony of the Gospels, as well as other sources, are aware of Jesus the Christ's life and purpose. Shouldn't there be by default a cognizant and conscious acknowledgement of Him since the awareness exists? I think when we try to exclusively compare the works of men with the works of Jesus we get into a little trouble. No man or woman who ever existed could compare, since Jesus was the only one who could bear the burden of the sins of the entire world.

Well said. Exclusivity has brought mankind and the planet to what can be experienced today. Any true Sacred Circle would have remained unbroken, were it not for followers of a truth converted to exclusive conveniences... instead of an all-inclusive social justice.
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Old 02-08-2009, 11:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by antjraf View Post
I can see how this does apply to those in the world of history which have never had the benefit of the written Word as a testimony to study and refer to. God has no encumberances, he can give any one who truly seeks Him the devine knowledge and Holy Spirit. However, those who have heard and do have the testimony of the Gospels, as well as other sources, are aware of Jesus the Christ's life and purpose. Shouldn't there be by default a cognizant and conscious acknowledgement of Him since the awareness exists?
All you are saying (and I agree with it) is that we as Christians have it a lot easier BECAUSE of our belief and knowledge of Jesus. . . . that's all. Jesus certainly doesn't need any acknowledgment . . . but it sure makes things a whole lot easier for we who do.
Quote:
I think when we try to exclusively compare the works of men with the works of Jesus we get into a little trouble. No man or woman who ever existed could compare, since Jesus was the only one who could bear the burden of the sins of the entire world.
No argument. Jesus had the ONLY human consciousness that matched God consciousness and could connect to it from the "womb of human physical existence" by dying and being reborn a Spirit (Holy Spirit). Now it is available to all human consciousness as the "Comforter" and guide urging us to love of God and each other.
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