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Old 01-13-2009, 09:33 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,726,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
I have no idea what stances you take that leads a person into salvation. Your name calling and criticism of others faith leads people AWAY from salvation....it turns people off Christianity.
I have been accused of legalism, so I say name one. Now you accuse me of name calling. what name have I used? criticisms of other faith? you mean like proclaiming the truth, the gospel and saying, Jesus is the only way. Maybe you would like me to lie to them and make them feel better as they head to hell?
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Old 01-13-2009, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,919,590 times
Reputation: 7014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I have been accused of legalism, so I say name one.

Where is torture in the bible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Now you accuse me of name calling. what name have I used?
You have called me a baby christian more than once
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
criticisms of other faith? you mean like proclaiming the truth, the gospel and say, Jesus is the only way.
No, proclaiming that the way you interpret things is the only way, and anyone who doesn't agree with you is going to hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Maybe you would like me to lie to them and make them feel better as they head to hell?
Maybe I would like you to quit your sanctimonious self congratulations, and show the fruit of the Spirit in your life......quit judging and start loving......and let me let you in on a secret.....although I doubt you can handle the real truth......you are not the one who decides who goes to hell and who doesn't.......so your proclamations about such things is no more than an empty wind blowing idly......except you damage your witness when you do, people don't pay attention to idle winds blowing.........
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:36 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,726,878 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
[/b]Where is torture in the bible?

You have called me a baby christian more than once
baby Christian??? I don't even use that term. I have said, I question your salvation and torture in the bible is legalism? Please research on legalism, it is about salvation, what does torture have to do with salvation? You got to be kidding

Quote:
No, proclaiming that the way you interpret things is the only way, and anyone who doesn't agree with you is going to hell.
Nope I never said that. I said, if you don't have the Son then you don't have the Father, If you don't believe in Jesus, repent and put your trust in Him then you are going to hell.

Quote:
Maybe I would like you to quit your sanctimonious self congratulations, and show the fruit of the Spirit in your life......quit judging and start loving......and let me let you in on a secret.....although I doubt you can handle the real truth......you are not the one who decides who goes to hell and who doesn't.......so your proclamations about such things is no more than an empty wind blowing idly......except you damage your witness when you do, people don't pay attention to idle winds blowing.........
Very poetic but ultimately wrong. You are a postmodern Christian who believes everyone has their own truth and when people like me claim to have the ONE truth then you attack us by calling us "sanctimonious", "judgmental". I have heard the same from angry atheists, no different. Have I ever told you, YOU ARE GOING TO HELL?
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:41 AM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,903,145 times
Reputation: 290
We must be careful what we imply, as well.

God is good. I feel like smiling today even while scratching my head a lot.
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:46 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,726,878 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by StirringWaters View Post
We must be careful what we imply, as well.

God is good. I feel like smiling today even while scratching my head a lot.
What is more loving? to let someone live their life comfortably and happy knowing that they will go to hell and say nothing? or to tell someone in a loving way that they are on the wrong path and if they don't repent and put their trust in Christ, they are going to hell? (I just don't see how a carnal mind can see that done lovingly)
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:49 AM
Status: "The nicest curve on a woman's body is her smile" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: Florida/Tennessee
2,448 posts, read 4,322,524 times
Reputation: 1322
Default pragmatism/truth/legalism/relevant

To often in todays world we find ourselves struggling with defining/seeing the importance of scripture by two different set of lenses... which is manifested by "what is relevant" or by "what is true".

The pragmatist has infected the church in various ways. Relevance has become more important than truth and the knowledge of God and His ways via Scripture has become marginalized. On the other hand those who take a stand for truth in the church today are often labeled as: argumentative, elitist, inflexible, pontificating, legalistic, etc., often such labels are deserved. Pursuing the truth without guidance in Eph 4:15 "truthing it in love." not only diminishes what is truly inmportant but can be grievous to many.

When truth is proclaimed with an air of infallibility ... and then to reject the necessity of pursuing and proclaiming truth because some folks do it poorly is hardly the answer....and so the question becomes....what is the alternative? to be tossed by every wind of doctrine on a sea of emotion? I hope not.

Truth needs to be packed together with relevance and love. Truth is often broken down into the simplest denominator while transparent relevance has been put on a pedestal. "Is it relevant?" rather than "Is it true?" We are a generation away from biblical illiteracy produced by intellectual enlightenment, on a scale that mirrors the middle ages... and there is where legalism is nourished.

There must be a co-commitment to scripture... commitment to its authority in all areas that it teaches, and a respect for others in the body for their diversity of viewpoints and diversity in gifts. There is no room for either belittlement or intimidation. Our beliefs and our character must be transferable in what we say and what we write.... for they reveal our true nature. It has been said that our lacking to do what God has commanded is a confirmation of atheism... for sin is rooted in disobedience to God's word. This may sound a bit harsh... but reading of Rom 12:1-2 may put this in perspective.

Let me try a definition of ANTI-legalism ; "A nuanced knowledge of the Bible which involves a hierarchy of doctrines, a commitment to the Bible’s final, infallible authority, and a profound respect for others who may disagree with our fallible interpretation".
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:54 AM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,903,145 times
Reputation: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
What is more loving? to let someone live their life comfortably and happy knowing that they will go to hell and say nothing? or to tell someone in a loving way that they are on the wrong path and if they don't repent and put their trust in Christ, they are going to hell? (I just don't see how a carnal mind can see that done lovingly)
Listen for just a second...sometimes a gentle word spoken with the same meaning behind it is more effective than brash. That is all.

I'm still smiling.
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:58 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,697 posts, read 74,699,564 times
Reputation: 48232
jesus teachings on the pharisees what not very positive. he did not want to throw off the law.
but he wanted the plate to be clean inside and out.
there is much name calling in our society. much hypocracy in the church. but the people usually pointing it out are so poorly qualified to point the finger. its hard to see the church clearly from a bar stool.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:01 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,726,878 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
To often in todays world we find ourselves struggling with defining/seeing the importance of scripture by two different set of lenses... which is manifested by "what is relevant" or by "what is true".

The pragmatist has infected the church in various ways. Relevance has become more important than truth and the knowledge of God and His ways via Scripture has become marginalized. On the other hand those who take a stand for truth in the church today are often labeled as: argumentative, elitist, inflexible, pontificating, legalistic, etc., often such labels are deserved. Pursuing the truth without guidance in Eph 4:15 "truthing it in love." not only diminishes what is truly inmportant but can be grievous to many.

When truth is proclaimed with an air of infallibility ... and then to reject the necessity of pursuing and proclaiming truth because some folks do it poorly is hardly the answer....and so the question becomes....what is the alternative? to be tossed by every wind of doctrine on a sea of emotion? I hope not.

Truth needs to be packed together with relevance and love. Truth is often broken down into the simplest denominator while transparent relevance has been put on a pedestal. "Is it relevant?" rather than "Is it true?" We are a generation away from biblical illiteracy produced by intellectual enlightenment, on a scale that mirrors the middle ages... and there is where legalism is nourished.

There must be a co-commitment to scripture... commitment to its authority in all areas that it teaches, and a respect for others in the body for their diversity of viewpoints and diversity in gifts. There is no room for either belittlement or intimidation. Our beliefs and our character must be transferable in what we say and what we write.... for they reveal our true nature. It has been said that our lacking to do what God has commanded is a confirmation of atheism... for sin is rooted in disobedience to God's word. This may sound a bit harsh... but reading of Rom 12:1-2 may put this in perspective.

Let me try a definition of ANTI-legalism ; "A nuanced knowledge of the Bible which involves a hierarchy of doctrines, a commitment to the Bible’s final, infallible authority, and a profound respect for others who may disagree with our fallible interpretation".
That was very nicely put together but with all due respect. You really did not say anything.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:03 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,726,878 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
jesus teachings on the pharisees what not very positive. he did not want to throw off the law.
but he wanted the plate to be clean inside and out.
there is much name calling in our society. much hypocracy in the church. but the people usually pointing it out are so poorly qualified to point the finger. its hard to see the church clearly from a bar stool.
That is why we must base it off scripture. It is the ONLY incorruptible authority in the church.
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