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Old 01-08-2009, 09:40 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,464,901 times
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I am seeing this accusation of Pharisee and legalist more and more slung around this forum very loosely and irresponsibly.
The word Pharisee is used to shut people up by judging them in the worse manner. It is used very loosely in the Evangelical community much like liberals who sling the words "homophobe", "racist", anti-semite".

So once and for all, let's have it out (and now, Lets' get Rrrrrready to Rrrrrrrruuuuuuuumble-but in a Christian loving manner)

"The Pharisees"
treated traditions as having equal authority as Scripture, and allowed our relationship with God to be reduced to a legalistic list of rules and rituals. For example when the Pharisses got on Jesus because His disciples did not wash their hands before they ate thus not following the Laws.

"Legalists" believe that strict literal adherence to those rules and regulations is demanded. Doctrinally, it is a position essentially opposed to grace. For example, there are those who feel that to be spiritual one must simply avoid tobacco, alcoholic beverages, dancing and movies, etc....which is wrong

(Romans 14:1) "14 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters."

(Romans 14:4) "4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."

(Romans 14:10) "10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat."

Now if I seem legalistic to you, then either I am because one can easily fall into it but I constantly pray that I won't; or you don't have a complete understanding of it- thinking that it's ALL about showing "judgment"; or you are preaching outright heresy.

While we need to be gracious to one another and tolerant of disagreement over disputable matters, we cannot accept heresy. We are exhorted to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. I am sorry but I will not accept heresy. I have no tolerance for that.

(Jude 3) "3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints."

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 01-08-2009 at 11:05 AM..
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:52 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,378,627 times
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Sigh

So in other words, you are looking for a fight? Or the Truth? Because if what you believe in, is the Truth, then what is the point of the thread.



But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts."
These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit. But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.
And have mercy on some, who are doubting; save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.
Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,907,396 times
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Actually the Pharasees do get a bad rapp. If we look close enough to the scriptures and who followed Christ there were many Pharasees (Nicodemus, Paul), and Scribes as well as Sadducees. He accepted all walks of life who were willing to admit they were sinners and repent and return to the true faith. When He went before the Sanhedrin it is written that a man known by the high councel joined Him. This man would have had to have been pretty important to be able to just walk in.
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:45 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,378,627 times
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This is true. At the same time there were those who by having POWER, were also looking for a "gotcha,,,see you are a false teacher".

They were unconcerned with the signs, and wonders of Jesus and His miracles. They just attributed them to Satan.

There are many, many teachers of the faith today. They come from all walks of life, and even trandsend time, like the preachers of old. But few of them have had the complete undivided Truth,,as this IS Jesus(the Word) to give out to those who overcame the world.

We all believe that we are taught the Truth. We read this from the written Word, that was given to us throughtout time. It is up to the Spirit to give us the discernment we need in these troubling times.
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:47 AM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,069,697 times
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Fundy I like the way you argue.

You set all rules and definitions.

Example:

There are babies in clouds.

Bigthirsty thinks rain comes from babies crying.. It rained yesterday thus proving there are babies in clouds.

I win.
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:11 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,763,217 times
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I could not agree more, Fundamentalist.
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Old 01-13-2009, 09:33 AM
 
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Once again, accused of legalism because I said, someone took a verse out of context. are you kidding me?!!
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,567,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Once again, accused of legalism because I said, someone took a verse out of context. are you kidding me?!!
What I find amusing, is that you take these positions and rightly state that such labels should not be used, then in other posts you do exactly what you protest here. You take legalistic stances and when people call you on it you call them names. You've referred to me as a "baby christian" without knowing me, without ever knowing where I come from, without knowledge of my history.....you have the audacity to label me. I've seen you accuse people of needing to come to Jesus, without knowing their relation with Jesus......how do you know what someone else needs?

Instead of telling others who they are or what they need to do, perhaps you could be more of an example.....provide evidence of your faith and let others find theirs. So long as you try to put yourself in the position of judging other peoples faith and relationship to Jesus, then yes, you are acting like the Pharisee whose intent is to sustain the rules of religion, not support the freedom of faith......and as a consequence, you make yourself a stumbling block to others and irrelevant in evangelism. I no longer look at your posts as a place to find meaningful discussion. It is only by accident that you are worth reading.
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:28 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,464,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
What I find amusing, is that you take these positions and rightly state that such labels should not be used, then in other posts you do exactly what you protest here. You take legalistic stances and when people call you on it you call them names. You've referred to me as a "baby christian" without knowing me, without ever knowing where I come from, without knowledge of my history.....you have the audacity to label me. I've seen you accuse people of needing to come to Jesus, without knowing their relation with Jesus......how do you know what someone else needs?

Instead of telling others who they are or what they need to do, perhaps you could be more of an example.....provide evidence of your faith and let others find theirs. So long as you try to put yourself in the position of judging other peoples faith and relationship to Jesus, then yes, you are acting like the Pharisee whose intent is to sustain the rules of religion, not support the freedom of faith.
What are these legalistic stances that I take which leads a person into salvation? Please would love to know. Just name one
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,567,380 times
Reputation: 7001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
What are these legalistic stances that I take which leads a person into salvation? Please would love to know. Just name one
I have no idea what stances you take that leads a person into salvation. Your name calling and criticism of others faith leads people AWAY from salvation....it turns people off Christianity.
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