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Old 01-08-2009, 09:11 AM
 
Location: LAT: 40.77 LON: 73.98
604 posts, read 982,862 times
Reputation: 142

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WARNING: Mild rant and FYI alert. Read and comment at your own risk!

Over the years I used to have some long debates with a Jamaican Seventh Day Adventist fellow. Good guy. As some of you might know, the Seventh Day Adventist Church has a long drawn out beef with the Catholic Church and as a result, created some elaborate interpretation of the book of Revelation to fit that beef. I am convinced that there would be no SDA church if there wasn't a Catholic Church to bash. Every time I used to press him about some of the unfounded details, he would tell me the reason I don't get it is because I "need the keys to scriptural understanding" to get it and/or understand it and as an unwashed (saved) individual, I was clueless.

Another way this is often told by some in the Christian community is that those who are "unsaved" cannot understand the things of God and thus, they need the [indwelling of the] holy spirit to manifest the truth and meaning of the scriptures and in order to get that special gift, one needs to sign up first (don't you just hate those kind of offers? You can get this new laptop but first, sign up for these 14 million offers from our sponsors). Conversely this means that if you are not "saved" then somehow you cannot understand the Bible, but is that really so? In fact, with all the differences of opinions on key beliefs found in the Christian community, you sometimes have to wonder if the holy spirit is having problems teaching the program.

It is certainly true that many people who have never been Christians might not have a good grasp on Christian theology and can completely misunderstand some Christian concepts or just not get it. For the Christian, there are premises he must start with to make his theology work or make sense. If an unbeliever thinks highly of himself and his fellow man and is trying from a standpoint of humanism to bring about a better world, he is not going to understand the Christian obsession (in some circles) with this notion that we are all a bunch of scum that needs a good saving by the blood of Jesus Christ. He is not going to understand the obsession with the notion of needing to saved from the wrath of a god who supposedly made up some rules of engagement less than half the world knows anything about. He is not going to understand that just by being born there is some god already licking his chops to kill you for sins you will commit or for being already "born in iniquity." You are already behind the 8-ball by virtue of conception. As a result, it would be very easy for some smug Christian to sit back and point out that the reason the unbeliever does not get it is because he cannot understand the things of God because he is not of God which sometimes really means, he is not a part of my particular sect or denomination which teaches this or that.

Enter the former Christian. While some may believe there is no such thing as a "former Christian," they are as real as "former spies," "former presidents" and "former drug addicts." There was a time when they knew and accepted the concepts - basic or advanced. They knew the lingo. They knew the fads, the songs, the catch phrase of the month, the latest hot prophesy. They know the framework from within the scope of which many Christians work with. Now they are no longer within the Christian camp does not mean all of a sudden they somehow forgot these things. They simply do not ACCEPT them anymore but can still speak with authority on them. You just don't stop knowing algebra just because you're not in math class anymore especially if the formulas and answers don't change. It's like the teenager who thinks the parent has no clue what they are experiencing, thinking, plotting, asking.

For reasons like these, such people have always been a threat to the church even from its infancy. They carried the same threat a spy carries and as with any "mystery religion" as the early church was, former members were not looked upon very favorably ESPECIALLY during a time when authorities were a little suspicious about secret gatherings and found former members valuable assets in keeping a check on any potential threats to said authority.

The early church dropped the label of "apostate" on them and reserved the harshest of language, condemnation and threats toward them. They were considered "dogs" who returned to their vomits; castaways who could NEVER again taste the glories of heaven. They were viewed as traitors whose "falling away" only proved they were never really committed to the cause because if they were, they would have stuck with it. No hope was held out for them, no second chances, no rethinking. Once you left the fold, you were considered nonredeemable. This was designed to keep numbers through fear and understandably so.

While much has changed since the early centuries C.E, the sentiment is still similar in some Christian circles. Former Christians are viewed as weaklings who could not endure the test, lured away by worldy temptations or fear of persecuion. They are scoffed at and discounted as irrelevant and/or less than authoritative on anything biblical. Somehow by claiming they never really were Christians in the first place this somehow castrated them of any opinion on any matters Christian. It is far easier for the Christian to deal with a rather blank blackboard of an unbeliever than one who already knows the ins and outs of the Christian world. It's like playing chess with a person who already knows every move you will make.

Last edited by Deguire; 01-08-2009 at 10:08 AM..
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:32 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,719,489 times
Reputation: 748
Thought I became a Christian in 1994. I was not. I became one last year and I now I have the Holy Spirit in me- the joy is unspeakable and full of glory. I could not fathom myself turning away from my God. I WILL NEVER leave. It would be better I never had been born.

"Parable of the sower"

Jesus’ explanation of the Parable of the Sower highlights four different responses to the gospel. The seed is “the word of the kingdom.”

The hard ground
represents someone who is hardened by sin; he hears but does not understand the Word, and Satan plucks the message away, keeping the heart dull and preventing the Word from making an impression.

The stony ground
pictures a man who professes delight with the Word; however, his heart is not changed, and when trouble arises, his so-called faith quickly disappears.

The thorny
ground depicts one who seems to receive the Word, but whose heart is full of riches, pleasures, and lusts; the things of this world take his time and attention away from the Word, and he ends up having no time for it.

The good ground
portrays the one who hears, understands, and receives the Word—and then allows the Word to accomplish its result in his life. The man represented by the “good ground” is the only one of the four who is truly saved, because salvation’s proof is fruit

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 01-08-2009 at 09:41 AM..
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,029,705 times
Reputation: 627
The major difference I see is the difference between knowledge, which anyone can have and knowledge tempered by faith. I know many of the claims against "former Christians" seem like copouts, but if someone trully understood they would never walk away. This can be seen in their later twisting of beliefs. To be fair we must also understand that not even true Christians understand everything about their faith and their scriptures. This makes for alot of problems whether someone is a "former Christian" or a growing Christian. It is possible that the person who claims to be a former Christian is in fact going thru a learning experience guided by God or merely believed they where whole hearted Christians by the manipulation of satan. Honestly it is hard to say and only God knows their hearts. We are given certain instructions concerning such people and honestly these instructions can seem rather harsh but must be utalized in faith.

It is easy for someone to fake being a Christian, read the Bible, memorize some verses, even do a deep study of the scriptures for a scholaly understanding but they will still somehow show bad fruit if they are not trully Christian.

Now of course there are many wellmeaning Christians who have no idea what they are talking about. They take things at face value and do not look for the truth but merely the fellowship and recognition. Others go so far as to claim enlightened revelations which conflict with scripture giving them the authority to reject scripture for their own personal doctrines. All these different versions of Christians are mentioned in scripture and we must understand that even satan understands scripture and can probably out quote and out preach the greatest preachers and scholars, but he is still of a false spirit.

Many of the difficulties between denominations are actually pretty trivial if we look at them in truth, but we put so much credence in these trivial things we miss the meat while chasing milk.
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:05 AM
 
Location: LAT: 40.77 LON: 73.98
604 posts, read 982,862 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
The major difference I see is the difference between knowledge, which anyone can have and knowledge tempered by faith. I know many of the claims against "former Christians" seem like copouts, but if someone trully understood they would never walk away. (Some would say that is only after understanding that is when they fell away. There is a quote that states a urefire way to become an atheist is to actually read the Bible). This can be seen in their later twisting of beliefs. To be fair we must also understand that not even true Christians understand everything about their faith and their scriptures. This makes for alot of problems whether someone is a "former Christian" or a growing Christian. It is possible that the person who claims to be a former Christian is in fact going thru a learning experience guided by God or merely believed they where whole hearted Christians by the manipulation of satan. Honestly it is hard to say and only God knows their hearts. We are given certain instructions concerning such people and honestly these instructions can seem rather harsh but must be utalized in faith.

It is easy for someone to fake being a Christian, (why would a person want to "fake" it, Robin?) read the Bible, memorize some verses, even do a deep study of the scriptures for a scholaly understanding but they will still somehow show bad fruit if they are not trully Christian. (this was definitelyu nt my experience)

Now of course there are many wellmeaning Christians who have no idea what they are talking about. They take things at face value and do not look for the truth but merely the fellowship and recognition. Others go so far as to claim enlightened revelations which conflict with scripture giving them the authority to reject scripture for their own personal doctrines. All these different versions of Christians are mentioned in scripture and we must understand that even satan understands scripture and can probably out quote and out preach the greatest preachers and scholars, but he is still of a false spirit.

Many of the difficulties between denominations are actually pretty trivial if we look at them in truth, but we put so much credence in these trivial things we miss the meat while chasing milk.
Hmm...
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:11 AM
 
Location: LAT: 40.77 LON: 73.98
604 posts, read 982,862 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Thought I became a Christian in 1994. I was not. I became one last year and I now I have the Holy Spirit in me- the joy is unspeakable and full of glory. I could not fathom myself turning away from my God. I WILL NEVER leave. It would be better I never had been born.

"Parable of the sower"

Jesus’ explanation of the Parable of the Sower highlights four different responses to the gospel. The seed is “the word of the kingdom.”

The hard ground
represents someone who is hardened by sin; he hears but does not understand the Word, and Satan plucks the message away, keeping the heart dull and preventing the Word from making an impression.

The stony ground
pictures a man who professes delight with the Word; however, his heart is not changed, and when trouble arises, his so-called faith quickly disappears.

The thorny
ground depicts one who seems to receive the Word, but whose heart is full of riches, pleasures, and lusts; the things of this world take his time and attention away from the Word, and he ends up having no time for it.

The good ground
portrays the one who hears, understands, and receives the Word—and then allows the Word to accomplish its result in his life. The man represented by the “good ground” is the only one of the four who is truly saved, because salvation’s proof is fruit

It might surprise you to know I was the last one because I cannot relate to the others. Never had one ounce of desire to be a part of the world. In fact, I still loathe lots of things about it.
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:16 AM
 
Location: LAT: 40.77 LON: 73.98
604 posts, read 982,862 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Thought I became a Christian in 1994. I was not. I became one last year and I now I have the Holy Spirit in me- the joy is unspeakable and full of glory. I could not fathom myself turning away from my God. I WILL NEVER leave. It would be better I never had been born.

"Parable of the sower"

Jesus’ explanation of the Parable of the Sower highlights four different responses to the gospel. The seed is “the word of the kingdom.”

The hard ground
represents someone who is hardened by sin; he hears but does not understand the Word, and Satan plucks the message away, keeping the heart dull and preventing the Word from making an impression.

The stony ground
pictures a man who professes delight with the Word; however, his heart is not changed, and when trouble arises, his so-called faith quickly disappears.

The thorny
ground depicts one who seems to receive the Word, but whose heart is full of riches, pleasures, and lusts; the things of this world take his time and attention away from the Word, and he ends up having no time for it.

The good ground
portrays the one who hears, understands, and receives the Word—and then allows the Word to accomplish its result in his life. The man represented by the “good ground” is the only one of the four who is truly saved, because salvation’s proof is fruit
Just an observational question Fundamentalist. Is it actually fair to be a one year old (true) Christian who turns around and tells a 17 year former Christian he was never a "true christian?" Isn't this a little arrogant and short-sighted? Just curious.
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,029,705 times
Reputation: 627
OK so what about the common sense reason for your walking away? Please feel free to share.
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:15 AM
 
1,146 posts, read 1,418,666 times
Reputation: 145
Post The Bible and The Key, the Holy Spirit

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deguire View Post
WARNING: Mild rant and FYI alert. Read and comment at your own risk!

Over the years I used to have some long debates with a Jamaican Seventh Day Adventist fellow. Good guy. As some of you might know, the Seventh Day Adventist Church has a long drawn out beef with the Catholic Church and as a result, created some elaborate interpretation of the book of Revelation to fit that beef. I am convinced that there would be no SDA church if there wasn't a Catholic Church to bash. Every time I used to press him about some of the unfounded details, he would tell me the reason I don't get it is because I "need the keys to scriptural understanding" to get it and/or understand it and as an unwashed (saved) individual, I was clueless.

Another way this is often told by some in the Christian community is that those who are "unsaved" cannot understand the things of God and thus, they need the [indwelling of the] holy spirit to manifest the truth and meaning of the scriptures and in order to get that special gift, one needs to sign up first (don't you just hate those kind of offers? You can get this new laptop but first, sign up for these 14 million offers from our sponsors). Conversely this means that if you are not "saved" then somehow you cannot understand the Bible, but is that really so? In fact, with all the differences of opinions on key beliefs found in the Christian community, you sometimes have to wonder if the holy spirit is having problems teaching the program.

It is certainly true that many people who have never been Christians might not have a good grasp on Christian theology and can completely misunderstand some Christian concepts or just not get it. For the Christian, there are premises he must start with to make his theology work or make sense. If an unbeliever thinks highly of himself and his fellow man and is trying from a standpoint of humanism to bring about a better world, he is not going to understand the Christian obsession (in some circles) with this notion that we are all a bunch of scum that needs a good saving by the blood of Jesus Christ. He is not going to understand the obsession with the notion of needing to saved from the wrath of a god who supposedly made up some rules of engagement less than half the world knows anything about. He is not going to understand that just by being born there is some god already licking his chops to kill you for sins you will commit or for being already "born in iniquity." You are already behind the 8-ball by virtue of conception. As a result, it would be very easy for some smug Christian to sit back and point out that the reason the unbeliever does not get it is because he cannot understand the things of God because he is not of God which sometimes really means, he is not a part of my particular sect or denomination which teaches this or that.

Enter the former Christian. While some may believe there is no such thing as a "former Christian," they are as real as "former spies," "former presidents" and "former drug addicts." There was a time when they knew and accepted the concepts - basic or advanced. They knew the lingo. They knew the fads, the songs, the catch phrase of the month, the latest hot prophesy. They know the framework from within the scope of which many Christians work with. Now they are no longer within the Christian camp does not mean all of a sudden they somehow forgot these things. They simply do not ACCEPT them anymore but can still speak with authority on them. You just don't stop knowing algebra just because you're not in math class anymore especially if the formulas and answers don't change. It's like the teenager who thinks the parent has no clue what they are experiencing, thinking, plotting, asking.

For reasons like these, such people have always been a threat to the church even from its infancy. They carried the same threat a spy carries and as with any "mystery religion" as the early church was, former members were not looked upon very favorably ESPECIALLY during a time when authorities were a little suspicious about secret gatherings and found former members valuable assets in keeping a check on any potential threats to said authority.

The early church dropped the label of "apostate" on them and reserved the harshest of language, condemnation and threats toward them. They were considered "dogs" who returned to their vomits; castaways who could NEVER again taste the glories of heaven. They were viewed as traitors whose "falling away" only proved they were never really committed to the cause because if they were, they would have stuck with it. No hope was held out for them, no second chances, no rethinking. Once you left the fold, you were considered nonredeemable. This was designed to keep numbers through fear and understandably so.

While much has changed since the early centuries C.E, the sentiment is still similar in some Christian circles. Former Christians are viewed as weaklings who could not endure the test, lured away by worldy temptations or fear of persecuion. They are scoffed at and discounted as irrelevant and/or less than authoritative on anything biblical. Somehow by claiming they never really were Christians in the first place this somehow castrated them of any opinion on any matters Christian. It is far easier for the Christian to deal with a rather blank blackboard of an unbeliever than one who already knows the ins and outs of the Christian world. It's like playing chess with a person who already knows every move you will make.
Remember in the passage where Jesus tells the apostles that he must go to the Father and that he will send us the helper which is the Holy Spirit? Something happen to me. Here is verses that may help to understand what’s going on.
John 14: 16 - 25 - 30 16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
28Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
29And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
30Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.


Because they are so many people that say they are to, it is hard to believe anyone as you see the times.
The Holy Spirit said there is a way to know if I or anyone is filled with the Holy Ghost since they are many people saying that I am Jesus or other.
Now it said in this passages about being indwelt by the helper. So you can get a feeling of what it feels to be indwelt or filled by the Holy Ghost.
Note that God only speaks through the Bible by faith and not by sight. Remember by study the Bible and everthing is in line with the teachings of Chist. "The Gospel massage"

We read in I Corinthians 6:1 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? Also in
I Corinthians. 12: 12 -14For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
For the body is not one member, but many.
Romans 1: 11 – 12 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
Romans 6: 13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Romans 12:4 – 11 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that showeth mercy, with cheerfulness.
Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;
Colossians 3: 1 – 6 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things’ sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

The King James Bible.
I ask a question? to the Holy Spirit. I can not interpret the Bible because the Bible interprets itself. I will look directly into the Scriptures for my answer. I can give you an example. For instant, I ask the Holy Ghost, how I can enter into the kingdom of God.
And this was His answer.

To Enter in the Kingdom of God you must be converted, and become as little children.
Matthew 1: 23; 25:1. I Corinthians 11: 2.Revelation 14:4The virgins are the children of God, and the lamps with the oil is the Holy Spirit, the key.
With out the Holy Spirit No one cannot enter the kingdom of God. How? The Spirit of God communicate with His Children only. He said,

Verily I say unto you, except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it was better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

If any man will come after me, let him deny him self or her, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it?
26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

2The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8Then saith he to his servants, the wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14For many are called, but few are chosen.

28For this is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
29But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.
Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
15Verily I say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, and he shall not enter therein.
27But I tell you of a truth, there is some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
12For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
13And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me.
14And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?
15And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man’s life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
16And he spake a parable unto them, saying, the ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
17And he thought within himself, saying, what shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
18And he said, this will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
19And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
20But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
21So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
22And he said unto his disciples, therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
23The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
24Consider the ravens: for they neither sows nor reaps; which neither has storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?
25And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
26If ye then are not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?
27Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
28If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
29And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
30For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
31But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
32Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
33Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
34For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
35Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
45But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
49I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
50But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
51Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
54And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
55And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass.
56Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
57Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
58When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison.
59I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite. The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
22And he said unto the disciples, the days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32Remember Lot’s wife.
33Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. There was in a city a judge, who feared not God, neither regarded man:
3And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, avenge me of mine adversary.
4And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, though I fear not God, nor regard man;
5Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
6And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
7And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
8I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
15And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
16But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

16For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.
21Why askest thou me? ask them which heard me, what I have said unto them: behold, they know what I said.
My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22Hast thou faith? Have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23And he that doubteth is damned if he eats, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

This is called Scripture with Scripture or spiritual things with spiritual things. with a Concordia or a Bible dictionary the words "kingdom" gave me the answer as the Holy Spirit guide me for my answer or it is imprint with my new heart and my new spirit.
The Holy Spirit only communicates with God's children. See when you're born again or saved,God gives his children special gifts,you can read this in 1 & 2 Corinthian about the special gifts or talent, God gives to his children.
This is called the gospel message. The Holy Spirit chastises or correction us, and another is called chastening.
The chastening is for cleansing of our sins.
It is to prepare us and to show us the things of the ways of the LORD and the adoption or wedding of Christ. But you must be sure, that the Spirit is from God as we read in.


I John 4: 1 – 6 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Galatians 6: 1 – 51Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
2Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
3For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
4But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
5For every man shall bear his own burden.
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:46 AM
 
1,146 posts, read 1,418,666 times
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Is going to take time for people to adjust it is not going to be easy, without critics is no success
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,029,705 times
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Thank you TheWordIsOne, very interesting and detailed post.

It is easy to have a religious or born again experience and still not be converted but think you are. Satan is very good at such deceptions and using these deceptions to sow tares amongst the wheat and neither the wheat nor the tare are aware until it is sometimes too late.

Look at Preachers like Creflo Dollar(or insert TV preacher of your choice). He preaches prosperity, gives you some picked and chosen verses with his own little spin. Tells you that you can be prosperous like him if you have faith enough. To the outsider looking in he is prosperous because of the multitude who falls for his BS and gives him so much money that actually belongs to God. This sets a poor example of real Christianity and turns alot of people away from the faith. Look at the fall of Jim Baker, Jimmy Swagert, and Ted Haggard, they are still excellent Preachers but they now have a worldly smear on their names and reputations for abusing the grace of God. Elvis, Johnny Cash, and Roy Orbison had the hearts of preachers and it showed in much of their work but they did not want to be hypocrits and chose a different path.

I pray that true believer be elevated to positions of examples for the masses and that the poor examples be shut down.
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