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Old 01-24-2009, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Canada
589 posts, read 1,348,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
Hey preterist,
Do you believe there will come an age when the physical is done away with or when man stops procreating and we all live in restoration to God?
Thanks
Actually the Bible said at the end of the 1000-yr rule of Jesus Christ on earth comes Judgment Day... and after that the physical universe comes to an end. Time and season, day and night, will be over. Those who are saved will be given eternal life and welcomed into the God Family. There will be no more pain, no more tears, only love and happiness. God the Father has a plan for eternity... but we won't find out until then.
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Old 01-24-2009, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,277,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilvan View Post
Actually the Bible said at the end of the 1000-yr rule of Jesus Christ on earth comes Judgment Day... and after that the physical universe comes to an end. Time and season, day and night, will be over. Those who are saved will be given eternal life and welcomed into the God Family. There will be no more pain, no more tears, only love and happiness. God the Father has a plan for eternity... but we won't find out until then.
The physical universe as we know it will end, but there will be a new heavens and a new earth.
(Isaiah 65:17 & 66:22)(Revelation 21:1)
But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
2Peter 3:13
I'm pretty sure that's why we need a resurrection in the first place.
A new universe untouched by sin - where those with resurrected bodies can dwell forever.
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Old 01-24-2009, 08:08 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,665 posts, read 74,604,692 times
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we have to play the cards we are dealt.
nothing is set in stone.
ninevah should have perished but did not.
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:26 AM
 
Location: Chicago
15,587 posts, read 23,193,163 times
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I am being objective, but I thought you all might want to see and read this:

Around the world, atheists hit road to knock down God - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090119/lf_afp/lifestylebritainreligiontransportatheism;_ylt=AiVS JH9hY2s9poNfZAGkGFd34T0D - broken link)
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Old 01-25-2009, 04:07 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,892,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avengerfire View Post
I am being objective, but I thought you all might want to see and read this:

Around the world, atheists hit road to knock down God - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090119/lf_afp/lifestylebritainreligiontransportatheism;_ylt=AiVS JH9hY2s9poNfZAGkGFd34T0D - broken link)
Well that was interesting , but I think many so-called Christians throughout the ages have done a better job of distancing people from Christianity than all the present atheists and those atheists who have ever lived put together ever could ever hope to do in their wildest imaginations or dreams.
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Old 01-25-2009, 04:14 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,892,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio View Post
The physical universe as we know it will end, but there will be a new heavens and a new earth.
(Isaiah 65:17 & 66:22)(Revelation 21:1)
But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
2Peter 3:13
I'm pretty sure that's why we need a resurrection in the first place.
A new universe untouched by sin - where those with resurrected bodies can dwell forever.
Why is there a need for a new universe of Solar Systems , Planets, Stars, etc ???? This also seems to be out of harmony with other scriptures which say the earth will be forever, and that God did'nt create it for nothing.

I also notice in your reference to Revelation 21:1 you did not fully quote the entire verse. Apparently if taken literally, there won't be anymore oceans or seas ever, is that true ???

Hmmmmmmm
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:15 AM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,277,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
Why is there a need for a new universe of Solar Systems , Planets, Stars, etc ???? This also seems to be out of harmony with other scriptures which say the earth will be forever, and that God did'nt create it for nothing.

I also notice in your reference to Revelation 21:1 you did not fully quote the entire verse. Apparently if taken literally, there won't be anymore oceans or seas ever, is that true ???

Hmmmmmmm
Yes there are Scriptures that say the earth continues forever but we don't know if "forever" is a relative term as in seemingly forever.
(Just as “40” is colloquial for “many”.)
Science tells us that even suns have a lifespan, so "forever could be relative to mortals.
As things exist now, our sun will eventually burn out or collapse (...something);
then the earth will not be able to support life.

Neither do we know if "the" is a relative term in that "the earth" would always exist in some form.

Considering the former, the only way the earth could actually continue forever, the rules of the universe would have to be rewritten.
Revelation describes the new earth as not having a sun or a moon, because the Lord Himself will abide not in heaven, but in the New Jerusalem.
He will be our illumination. Nor will there be seas or oceans.

God is not so small that He cannot completely rewrite the laws of biology, physics (of the cosmos too), and even quantum mechanics…
or just simply strip them away, so that everything exists and operates without any other reason other than "He Is" (I Am)
…yet not just in the spiritual realm, but a new physical cosmos - without degeneration of biology, or matter, or celestial orbit.

Before I came to this "concept" (not that I can grasp it), I used to ponder the reason why the souls in heaven should need resurrection bodies.
They are already with the Lord, who could need anything else?
But then again, why should God have created the physical experience in the first place?
I don’t know, but it seems to me to be some sort of completeness of existence for all things created.

Some may say that this “new heavens” and “new earth” are symbolic, because they are mentioned in Revelation, but Peter tells us that this is what we are awaiting.
…Not just floating around in heaven forever, but a new beginning - as in our spiritual birth into the kingdom.
…A totally new creation where the old (even the law of sin and death - Romans 8:2) has ended - and only righteousness exists.
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Cor 2:9

Last edited by Richio; 01-25-2009 at 05:30 AM..
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:02 AM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,277,120 times
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Paul wrote this under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:
So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world.
But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

Galatians 4:3-6
Certainly we were in bondage to sin and seem to still be subjected to the limitations of mortality and even human physical and moral corruption.
By the same Spirit, Paul also wrote this: (Sorry. It is long, but relevant.)
However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh--
for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

Romans 8:9-21
In the KJV, the word "Elements" is used above. (first quote)
If we look at the word as being extremely literal (below), we'll be able to throw away the periodic table.
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

2Peter 3:10-12
To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity.
2Peter 3:18

Last edited by Richio; 01-25-2009 at 06:46 AM.. Reason: Added brown
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:30 AM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,277,120 times
Reputation: 173
Off topic:
The answer to the scriptural basis for asking Jesus "into your heart".

Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
Galatians 4:6
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:19 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,892,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio View Post
Yes there are Scriptures that say the earth continues forever but we don't know if "forever" is a relative term as in seemingly forever.
(Just as “40” is colloquial for “many”.)
Science tells us that even suns have a lifespan, so "forever could be relative to mortals.
As things exist now, our sun will eventually burn out or collapse (...something);
then the earth will not be able to support life.

Neither do we know if "the" is a relative term in that "the earth" would always exist in some form.
So you believe as the evolutionists do that eventually our sun will one day burn out ??? Does'nt Almighty God, who created it have the ability to keep it sustained for eternity if he so sees fit ??? Hmmmmm

The Earth can be used in a figurative way as well. It's not always a literal Earth. Take a look at this familiar scripture:
Genisis 11:1 - "American Standard Version"
Quote:
"And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech."
Obviously we know that the literal Earth does'nt speak or talk. However, it is used here to describe the situation then of the people who built the tower of Babel and refused to follow the command of spreading across the Earth and populate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio
Considering the former, the only way the earth could actually continue forever, the rules of the universe would have to be rewritten.
Revelation describes the new earth as not having a sun or a moon, because the Lord Himself will abide not in heaven, but in the New Jerusalem.
He will be our illumination. Nor will there be seas or oceans.
Well let's see how Revelation defines the "Sea" elsewhere.
Revelation 17:1 , 15 - "Today's New International Version"
Quote:
One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, and I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute who sits by many waters."

Then the angel said to me, "The waters that you saw, where the prostitute sits are peoples, multitudes, nations and tongues."
Even the wild beast of Revelation ascends out of the sea. Seems like the sea is the restless agitated sea of humanity , but in particular those alienated from God or ungodly mankind. This agrees with the statements at
Isaiah 57:20 & 17:12-13 - "Today's New Internation Version"
Quote:
"The wicked are like the tossing sea, which cannot rest, whose waves cast up mire and mud."

"Woe to many nations that rage, they rage like raging sea,
Woe to the peoples that roar, they roar like a roaring of great waters!

Although peoples roar like the roar of surging waters, when he rebukes them they flee away.
driven before the wind like chaff on the hills, like tumbleweeds before a gale."
I use to work for a property management company. The biggest problem we had with tenants was that the people who the company rented to had ZERO respect for our property. To remedy the situation, we did'nt burn down own houses, trailers or apartments, we simply evicted the tenants. The same is true of our planet Earth. There is nothing wrong with it. However, mankind has mismanage it environmentally , socially and morally. They are the SEA that has to be evicted or removed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio
Before I came to this "concept" (not that I can grasp it), I used to ponder the reason why the souls in heaven should need resurrection bodies.
They are already with the Lord, who could need anything else?
But then again, why should God have created the physical experience in the first place?
I don’t know, but it seems to me to be some sort of completeness of existence for all things created.
God's purpose in creating the earth and mankind on it was not simply to test everyone and if they were obedient they go to heaven and if they were disobedient they go to Hellfire. Adam and Eve were simply given a command not to eat of one specific tree. If they did they would simply die and that they did. Had they been obedient, they would have kept living where God had purposed man to be all along. Of couse history would have been different and we would be having this discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio
Some may say that this “new heavens” and “new earth” are symbolic, because they are mentioned in Revelation, but Peter tells us that this is what we are awaiting.
…Not just floating around in heaven forever, but a new beginning - as in our spiritual birth into the kingdom.
We don't need a new earth. Notice here after reminding listeners of the example of ungodly mankind who were destroyed in the flood of Noah's day, Peter make the similiar comparison again. The apostle Peter said this:
1 Peter 3;7 - "Today's New International Version"
Quote:
"By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for that day of judgement and the destruction of ungodly men."
So it's the ungodly element of mankind who get evicted from the earth. This is also in harmony with another scripture i often have jokingly used for the so-called Rapture.
Proverbs 2:21-22
Quote:
"For the upright will live in the earth, and the blameless will remain in it.

but the wicked will be cut off from the earth, and the unfaithful will be torn from it."
Seriously Richio, i don't wish or hope for you to be "Raptured".
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